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  • Writer's pictureHall of Gains and Hypertrophy Podcast

HGH #25 - Updates & Arnold Classic Results Review


00:00.00

christophknoll

Welcome back buddy. We are back. Edit it with another week. Another podcast another episode.

00:08.00

Paul

Allison's gonna be a good one I think we got let me turn out my gain a little bit I think I'm little quiet. Um, we got a good ah session today. So I figure we can kind of like shoot the shit a little bit in the beginning kind of see where everybody's at or where both of us are at and then we'll kind of talk about the arm of classic.

00:12.84

christophknoll

Yep.

00:23.73

Paul

Ah so 2 big shows each year that we get to really enjoy. Um, as far as like the biggest shows which is going to be the olympia and the arnold um, the Olympia takes place different different days each year but the the arnna classic usually takes place right? or on now and a February beginning of March um, the Olympia. 2022 um was December fifteenth through the eighteenth so it usually does take place in the middle of December but it used to take place in October. But yeah, so we got arold classics talk about which is exciting.

00:55.87

christophknoll

Yeah, and then also a little bit of personal updates too since that affects my training and what's going on. Um, but yeah, ah and if.

01:04.15

Paul

Yeah, yeah, something big happened this week ah

01:10.95

christophknoll

Anybody watching the camera just saw it's I'm doing this weird crossover to drink my coffee because of that. So ah, yep, So basically what happened um one sec. So basically what happened is that.

01:15.59

Paul

Yeah, it's a good old good old incident.

01:30.70

Paul

Let's.

01:30.36

christophknoll

Um I was playing in a student staff basketball game and when I was playing in that game I tend to go pretty intense and there is a loose ball and I do for the loose ball. Someone else went for the loose ball and I caught a knee of the head and then knocked me clean out like completely out.

01:38.13

Paul

Is.

01:49.72

Paul

What the.

01:50.18

christophknoll

I Had no idea where I was when I woke up probably mildly concussed to so that's a ton of fun. Um, and I'm told that when I hit the ground I landed on my hand very poorly. Um and at the time I didn't even notice it. So I.

01:58.58

Paul

Going to.

02:08.22

christophknoll

You know someone helped me up I got over to the bench then I went to another room I laid down for a bit and then like 5 minutes went by and then I checked back into the game and when I got back out there I found one of my buddies who was on the court and I could feel that my pinky was messed up. And I thought it was just a dislocated finger because I was looking at the Knuckle and the Knuck The pinky Knuckle was where the ring Knuckle was supposed to be so I had my buddy just you know I bent over a little bit to suck in the the.

02:35.53

Paul

Yep.

02:44.28

christophknoll

Upcoming pain and he popped back into place for me and we both heard and felt the pop so that we knew was back into place and then yep yep I mean just from the placement it had to be and it also popped when we moved it so that.

02:51.10

Paul

And so you knew you knew for sure it was dislocated before. Okay, yeah.

03:03.76

christophknoll

Is kind of a giveaway and then I went to urgent care afterwards to just make sure that we had realigned it properly and everything um and when I got there they had me go into the x-ray and also I want urgent care not primary care because it was like 8 at night.

03:03.78

Paul

Is.

03:22.95

christophknoll

Um, and so I went into the X-ray They took a couple shots and I went back to the into the little room they have you wait in and when they came in I was like so did we realign the.

03:23.79

Paul

Um, yeah.

03:36.36

christophknoll

The the finger properly and she was like oh yeah, it's you real like it's not dislocated anymore. You just broke your hand so it's on the fifth metacarpal on my left hand. It's what essentially the what connects my pinky to my hand and.

03:41.98

Paul

Nice.

03:52.63

Paul

And.

03:55.46

christophknoll

It is just the break is just ah ah I have to check the picture again. It's either just above or just below the Knuckle I'm gonna look at it just to make sure it is ah while it's in my hand. It's in my hand so you can see where the knuckles are.

04:01.83

Paul

So it's the big part of your pinky right? Essentially the big bone or was it looking at it wrong? oh.

04:14.91

christophknoll

And because it's up. That's that ball right there and that I yeah I can do that.

04:16.70

Paul

Yeah here shoot me shoot me the photo real quick just text me the photo real quick. Let me pull it up. Yeah because I was looking at it wrong I thought I was looking at the big, the big bone on your pain key. So I was like oh that'd be fine for training. That's not that you just get a split. Okay.

04:30.98

christophknoll

No yeah, no, this is ah and if you zoom in you can see where the clear cutline is but then do you see that dark sliver That's riding just beneath the clear cut line.

04:34.65

Paul

Okay I see now. Damn yeah you did break your hand. Okay.

04:43.63

Paul

Yes, yeah, so it's like 1 break on the left side 2 breaks on the right almost? yeah.

04:46.57

christophknoll

That is a second break So it is not a yeah, it is not a clean break at all. Um, and so what I now have to you know deal with is this.

05:02.83

Paul

Yeah.

05:05.58

christophknoll

Um, for those who are watching I just lifted and for those not watching I have essentially a full forearm to finger cast. Well this is a temporary one because I was at Urgent care and I have.

05:14.39

Paul

Parents.

05:19.46

christophknoll

An ortho appointment on Wednesday to decide if I need surgery and whatnot because like I said it's not a clean break and I need to. Ah yeah, so if it's if it doesn't require surgery I'm probably looking at forty six weeks ah and if I do need surgery.

05:27.30

Paul

Ah.

05:36.18

Paul

Hopefully.

05:37.31

christophknoll

We're probably closer to the 6 to 8 potentially even ten week range um so that is a huge setback on my end but I called my coach the very next day and I was like hey man this is what happened. Ah.

05:42.43

Paul

Um.

05:52.94

christophknoll

I Obviously want to keep training and I know I can I think you and I talked about it like I can crush abs and legs for sure. Um, what can I do for the rest of it and that's what got me to a really interesting conversation point and I did a and decent amount of research myself. Um.

05:58.77

Paul

Yeah, yeah.

06:11.79

christophknoll

But unilateral work. So or um, if you'll hear bilateral work a lot but unilateral work is just training one side of your body or like 1 muscle group and you know for example, my next day according to the plan would be my shoulder day. And obviously if you look at my hands I can I can only grip 1 dumbbell in right now in my right hand I cannot grip anything in my left hand nor am I able to angle anything and probably if I go to the top of the range. My finger is going to get. Um. Triggered a little bit just because of how the cast is so I asked him about this and essentially there are no neur pathways within our muscles and without our nerves our fiber literally everything. It's what connects everything in our body to our brain. That's within every little part of our body and there are studies that have been done. So for example, if anyone wants to take a look ace fitness is not a research article but it is a reliable fitness website. With a lot of ah research-based material. So this particular ah article is stating that unilateral unilateral work is shown to keep the neuro pathways open and active. So I'm not going to be gaining any muscle on my left side. So for example.

07:47.73

christophknoll

If I'm shoulder pressing my right delt is going to be worked obviously because it's under strenuous pressure because I'm actually performing the dumbbell shoulder press whereas my left dealt is not going to be under any kind of intense stimuli.

07:56.62

Paul

And.

08:05.39

christophknoll

It's not actually being worked in a muscle gaining hypertrophy way. But what is happening is that just the activation of the muscle on the other side is going to trigger my brain to think about the other side and that in itself keeps the muscles active on my left side. Which again will not will not gain muscle but everyone in the who is in the gym knows that if you take three weeks off of the gym. That's when you start to see muscle deterioration. Um, because you so your body decides it doesn't need it anymore if you don't touch it for three weeks

08:40.60

Paul

Are.

08:42.44

christophknoll

Um, sometimes it's two weeks sometimes it's four weeks but three weeks is generally your golden number and so what this particular area of fitness is going to do is that it's going to delay that process for me. So obviously this is not a long term thing I can't do this for a year and be fine, but.

09:00.52

Paul

Um, yeah.

09:01.39

christophknoll

If I have a so four to 6 week recovery time I should be good 8 to 10 is when it gets a little bit gray like in the gray area. But right now if I can keep it to 6 maybe seven weeks I should be able to keep my ah.

09:10.18

Paul

Um.

09:18.45

christophknoll

Tone and muscle definition and size on my left side. Um, and yeah, and of course that's all upper body and there are some upper body things I'm still going to be able to hit like my gym has a machine seated machine Latl race that the pads are.

09:21.91

Paul

Yeah, least maintain it.

09:37.99

Paul

Yeah, yeah I know what you're talking about? Yeah yeah.

09:38.19

christophknoll

Ah, pressed against your biceps like the outside are kind of your triceps even and so for that I could still do that and so there's gonna be some like shoulder variance that I'm gonna be able to do um and honestly I might try squatting still. Um I just have to.

09:54.15

Paul

Get be careful with that.

09:57.58

christophknoll

Yeah I think I might Smith machine it because with the smith machines I mean I know Smith Machine Squats are the you know the the joke of the the gym world. But if I disagree but.

10:05.76

Paul

No, not at all I mean if you take them serious like if you if you do it properly. They're not but it's a lot of people do them improperly and that's why we could they become kind of a joke. But yeah, go ahead.

10:19.80

christophknoll

Yeah, but I think more so what I mean by doing ah Smith Machine squats for me is that it keeps the bar like I hypothetically can just use my right hand to lock and unlock the bar.

10:24.44

Paul

Me.

10:32.55

Paul

And.

10:34.22

christophknoll

And as long as I'm staying in the same spot going down which you know it's a smith machine you have to um, like as long as your angles not fucked on the Smith machine I should be able to do a no hand squat or even just a very lightly assisted right? hand squat. Um.

10:49.94

Paul

Um, yeah.

10:53.27

christophknoll

But luckily we got Hacksquat Empire so I can crush that without any worries. So my legs really won't be taking that big of a toll on this whole thing I just can't do some of the movements I like to do and then of course ches days.

11:07.70

Paul

Yeah.

11:11.87

christophknoll

Obviously just going to be such a tough one now. Um triceps and biceps I should be fine with because a lot of lot of that cable work I can do with 1 hand so I should be fine in terms of buys and tries back will be another kind of tough one I know it'll.

11:29.96

christophknoll

For me, it'll just be the mental side of back because again this ah unilateral work is shown to keep the neuropathways open on the other side but mentally I'm need to get myself to under so like just train like mentally train the right side. Because when we say put like your mind into the muscle like the old arnold method like I've been doing that for my back like if I'm hitting upper back I'm in my upper back. Both sides. So now I have to add an additional layer of just saying I'm staying in the right side because I know the left side is going to be activated just not strenuously worked.

11:50.40

Paul

Are.

12:05.27

Paul

Yeah, yeah.

12:06.84

christophknoll

So it's a big process I I got really down to myself at first because I thought I wasn't gonna be able to lift. But then I got myself straight with my coach and we're kind of in recovery mode now. So.

12:21.54

Paul

Yeah, Well I mean that's all you really can do and I think that with his guidance. Um I think you'll be okay and you know it's honestly like kind of the way I look at it is like it's better now than later like especially prepping for a show or like really like. Hypothetically being on a cycle or something like that like it's better now while you're you're natty, you're you're just pushing weight right now you're trying to gain some size I think now was if there is going to be a time to have it happen now is the perfect time. Not that Obviously we want it to happen. But I think that it could have been.. It could have been much much worse Timing. So.

12:54.10

christophknoll

Um.

12:58.40

Paul

Um, I'm glad that it happened when it did um and now going forward once that bone does Heal. It will be stronger so you would be you know, less prone to another break but something I was mentioning too In the case that you guys have it kind of like the side lateral machine. You had like a chess fly machine that has pas in the inside of your elbows you can do something like that. Potentially um, and then when it comes to like delts something I was thinking about was like so you can use the you can use the um side lateral delt machine for your side laterals. But then we can also do is lean into it. Stand up and lean into it and that'll be your rear dels you push from the outside of your elbows. So I Know what machine you're talking about So when you're sitting you go like this and the pads kind of like out here. Maybe a little bit on your elbow depending on the plate seat Placement. So if you stand up Lean forward and push from the outside of your elbows that'd be kind of like your rear delts.

13:37.99

christophknoll

Ah.

13:52.52

Paul

You could work your real rear doubts a little bit. Um front Doubtts You can do potentially a similar machine. Maybe um, it just you just got to pull up to front. Whatever you know? So I mean if there's a way to figure that out then um I don't know how your machine's built the what app but gym I go to it's. Um I could not fit sideways into it to do front dell. It would not work. Um, but some of them are further out some of them are Adjustable. So I have no idea. But um, another thing to consider too is for do specifically?? um.

14:28.71

Paul

Maybe even triceps if you had a like wrist wrap that can connect to a cable machine. You could potentially attach that to your cast when you get a hard cast and use that for a side lateral ah row or side lateral raises or just lateral raiseings in general you can do front and lateral raises and then also your tricep extensions too. Um, so Rob's trying to risk and then connects to the cable machine. So that's another thought. But if your coach says to not do that you know not to risk or whatever it is you know whatever he says not to do then? don't do it. But that's just an idea I had at least when you're talking about it. Um, there's ways around it. But.

15:01.53

christophknoll

Yeah, and I mean this whole next two three weeks is just going to be experiment phase because on Wednesday I'll probably find out if I need surgery or not. So then if I find out Wednesday that I do. That's probably a Friday type situation and then.

15:08.40

Paul

Yeah.

15:18.80

Paul

But.

15:21.22

christophknoll

I'm not gonna be allowed to be even in the gym for a couple days after surgery. So that's I mean I might be able to go do some cardio or something but that's about it. Um, and so then the next week after that and probably another week following that will just be experimenting trying to figure out what I can do. Um.

15:24.30

Paul

Yeah.

15:38.55

christophknoll

But yeah, it's just it's a very daunting ah road ahead, especially when I was just finally getting into a groove of things but that's just kind of how how life goes man.

15:41.56

Paul

Yeah. Yeah I know yep yep and I think that now with this going on I think you could potentially like change the program you know instead of like trying to put on weight. Maybe. Shift it so that you're right at maintenance or like just below maintenance so that you can do kind of like a very very lean cut just kind of shed a little bit of fat over the next couple months and then just kind of come back at it I mean it wouldn't be like night and day. But at least it'd be like. You know he might need to adjust your food either way because you're going to be burning less calories. Ah so you know less intake because less burning. But I have no idea if that's this plan um or not but I mean you know everybody goes through something like this everybody goes through injuries and all that and setbacks so you're not alone. Um, and you know. I'm glad that at least you know your coach has the expertise to know what to do and and at least keep your neural pathways open so that you're you're still moving. You're still keep staying active and the muscle groups are still kind of activating in a way. So good guidance at least which is good.

16:51.58

christophknoll

Yeah, and I think it's just going to be you know, especially when it comes to my leg stuff that I can actually do like we'll probably end up switching to higher volume with less weight just because even though I'm training legs your whole body gets stressed.

17:09.91

Paul

Um, yeah.

17:11.43

christophknoll

Especially when you do high weight like oxygen just in general doesn't flow to other areas of the body when you're doing very very high stress for other muscle groups like if I'm doing 9 plates for a leg press not that I leg press anymore. But if I was doing like 9 plates for a leg press even though that's a leg movement.

17:29.17

Paul

I.

17:30.93

christophknoll

Oxygen and the rest of my body is not being distributed properly so that's probably something I want to be avoiding Anyways, just because I need that blood flow and Oxygen into my hand for the recovery process. So I'll probably talk to him about switching everything to a high volume lightweight. Um.

17:42.90

Paul

Yeah, not go too crazy.

17:49.66

christophknoll

Especially since I'm in more so muscle retention right now instead of muscle building because if I stick with muscle building I'm going to become disoriented not disoriented I'm almost disfigured because my ah think about it a month and a half almost two months of right hand over or right side overload.

17:56.18

Paul

Yeah.

18:09.65

christophknoll

Would look like you know I would be a wobbling tower at that point. So I think it's definitely going to have to switch for what we're actually what what the goal of our training is.

18:12.97

Paul

Yeah, little off.

18:23.71

Paul

Right? I mean at least for now I mean it's not like six months you know we're not talking about like literally setting everything back like 6 to eight weeks even at that is you know, not the longest period of time I mean it sucks but it's not going to ruin anything. Um. And what he could do like I said you know, kind of just keep you maintaining keep you up maintenance calories from what he can understand because you guys have been working for together for 2 too long. Um, so you can kind of guess what your maintenance calories could be and they kind of go from there and then maybe even like increase cardio potentially um. To keep you active. Keep your blood flowing. Keep your heart strong. Um during the recovery process. Um, and then you know hopefully maybe even incorporate a little bit of calorie burning from that cardio. Obviously I mean I've always said this before you shouldn't really be looking at cardio as like where you're going to burn your calories. That's. Your your heart health your your overall cardiovascular health and that's what cardio is called. It's cardiovascular training. So it's for your overall cardiovascular system but training training. That's where you burn the calories. So I think that maybe if you like increase your ah increase your cardio. Um, you know, maybe train like legs and then everything else separately like 1 ne-sided stuff like twice a week or something you train likes twice a week so like four days a week or something and then like you do cardio maybe 4 Or 5 Times a week for like 45 minutes or something I think that you know that'll keep you pretty active and um.

19:53.46

Paul

You can kind of enjoy that process a little bit at least for the next like four to six weeks after potential surgery and everything. Hopefully you don't need surgery. Um, but I mean if the doctor says you need surgery then you need surgery I mean it is what it is but Wednesday will kind of you know, let us know what the future entails.

20:09.57

christophknoll

Yeah, and the only thing that makes me worried is that I didn't even see the second breakage. Originally I saw the the main sliver right? under the left under the ah Knuckle of the ah left pinky and I was like oh cool, it's one break will realign.

20:13.47

Paul

So yeah.

20:28.25

Paul

Point.

20:28.45

christophknoll

It'll reattach itself and then I sent it to a person. Well the person that was the science teacher I worked with and she was like hey you know there's a second break right? and I was like uh so since there's 2 breaks and it's not a clean break because one goes you know. At like a ° angle through the ah bone and the other ones dropping like straight down at like a almost like an eighty degree angle. Um, exactly so because of that I'm thinking they might need to pin it up and like force the bone to remold to itself.

20:50.57

Paul

Yeah, and it doesn't go through the other side. Yeah.

21:02.72

Paul

So the one that breaks on the right side does that connect to the left side at all I can't really tell it doesn't look like it even connects to the left side. So like there's a left break that stops in the middle.

21:15.81

christophknoll

That's her the break. It's you're talking about on the left pinky right? Yep yeah and that one goes clean through.

21:21.89

Paul

Yes, yeah, so like looking at the photo. There's the left side break that kind of comes out the top of that medical. Okay, so there so the part that ends the middle there right.

21:32.42

christophknoll

And Then. Ah, that's correct. That's the that's literally like splitting my bone. That's that's what that's doing which is horrifying to think.

21:37.80

Paul

Kind of right in this mack that middle. That's the part That's not a clean break correct. Okay, right right? So so just to be clear the right side break. You see how it goes out the right side that's connected to the left side correct.

21:52.56

christophknoll

Yep, Yeah, yeah, you can. There's just a little sliver that connects it and then the other one cuts is like dividing my bone in half which is yeah.

21:56.17

Paul

Okay, all right? Okay, yeah, so it's kind of like a why but 1 side is clean break 1 side stops in the middle. Okay, cool I just want to be sure that that left side because it kind of.

22:11.20

christophknoll

Yep yep.

22:15.85

Paul

For the X-ray doesn't quite look like it. It connects So I'm like oh crap did you not have a clean break at all. But I wanted to be sure of that. So that's why I figured out ask but that's that's tough and the other problem too. Um, is that when you are healed for a pride.

22:24.49

christophknoll

Yeah, it's.

22:35.47

Paul

Quite a long time. You're going to have to adjust how you're training to kind of take into account potential pain. Um, which I wanted to mention real quick. It's nothing compared to this but I have a um I have a broken hand as well. My left hand It's the joint that connects my my thumb.

22:54.92

Paul

Essentially the thumb part of my hand to my wrist that split so my thumb isn't essentially connected to my hand in that it's only partially connected so I went We didn't realize it in the X-ray Um I Went to a hand specialist and he's like yeah this is a break. Um. There's nothing really. We could do it about it because it was already too long after my at a motorcycle accident. So for me, it was just kind of managing you know Irritation. So Um I think that when you're going to have this surgery potentially or just this this recovery process whichever one it is or really both. Um, you're going to also have to adjust your training to potentially for a little while not put much load on that part of your hand which is fine I've had to adjust that way and it's really the only thing to came down to was like how I put my hand On. Um.

23:41.28

christophknoll

Um.

23:50.14

Paul

Bars and machines and stuff like that for chest that was the only thing it affected because if I put a lot of weight on the inside of my hand right here? Um, it put it. It started to kill like the first like six months after my my motorcycle accident but then. As time went on pain went away and went away went away and now it's really not a problem but for a while there I had to adjust and pretty much. That's how I got good at suicides grip. Um, that pretty much every time I train chest very very seldom will I ever not use suicide grip because that's how I had to how I had to do it.

24:23.89

christophknoll

I I use Suicide Grip Anyways, just because one I did it I think it's fair as well. But I also started doing it because of the memes. Ah yeah, like she.

24:25.93

Paul

So I think it's superior. Yeah, yeah, I'm wanting to die you saw your crush walking with somebody else and you're like yep Suicide Grip. It is.

24:41.54

christophknoll

Pre the pre-workout is looking at the old texts and then then you suicide grip and you text your buddy that you're ah, benching 4 or 5 as you've never done 2 25 before but um.

24:53.78

Paul

Yeah, that was my ah that was my like I was like because I didn't really know any better at the time I was pretty new but I mean I was working with the coach at the time. Um, but I was relatively new to the fitness industry for the most part. Um like you're way beyond where I was at the time. Um. And the the way I was working with my coach was mainly just like ah lifestyle kind of stuff really? um, but the when I was doing suicide grip I was just like oh this is superior. This is well this is not hurting but I also feel I could get better chest activation. I didn't really know it was called suicide grip I just knew that that's how my coach did some things and it's just the bar placement was on the outside of my hand versus the inside. So you're gonna have to do the opposite probably you're probably gonna have to do more regular grip for chest at least for the next like six months or so because if you do suicide all the weight is gonna be pushing on the outside your hand where that.

25:28.62

christophknoll

Yeah.

25:47.88

Paul

Where that break is um so you might need to adjust. But for me, that's how I that's where I had to put the weight. So I'm just like oh this just works better I get better chest activation blah blah blah but then like a couple years later there's all these memes about suicide grip and wanting to die under their weight and shit like that I'm like what I'm like this is a thing.

26:01.53

christophknoll

And.

26:06.91

Paul

I just thought this is just one way of gripping things but it does make sense I mean I have dropped the weight on my chest once having 1 time it was a triset press. Um, and I had one eighty five and I was pressing it and the bar slipped um and landed on my stomach.

26:22.28

christophknoll

Did he did he sign the waiver did he sign the waiver.

26:22.66

Paul

And it wasn't it didn't really hurt anything I didn't break it in gribs thing god yeah for real though. Um, but it was at a powerless gym so they're able to pull the weight off me no problem. So it was. It was pretty good situation but I'm glad that I learned that lesson on a lighter weight at one eighty five versus like. 2 oh 5 or no, not 2 ah 5 like 2 25 or higher because I probably would have broken something and like that shit's fucking scary. Um, even at 86 if you've ever like have you ever dropped weight on your chest from it.

26:45.17

christophknoll

Yeah, you could you could you could break your ribs just having the bar drop on your on your on your rib cage like that's forty forty five coming down even from.

26:57.61

Paul

Oh well. Absolutely.

27:03.51

christophknoll

Two feet up from or you know, whatever your range of motion is like that could absolutely crush at least your lower rib and the the scary thing about rib cage breaks is that depending on which rib is breaking.

27:03.56

Paul

Um, just right? yeah.

27:18.79

christophknoll

It's not just your rib. It is what ever is directly behind it so you can puncture a lung. You can you potentially skewer your own heart if you hit way up high like there is some messed up side effects that can happen with you know, breaking a rib.

27:22.59

Paul

Um, yeah, yeah.

27:28.40

Paul

Um, yeah, right right? it it is scary and um and what's like yeah.

27:38.79

christophknoll

That's that sorry to just to interrupt 1 more time. That's why um, some of the most lethal Ufc or mma fighters are body shot specialists because not only are there pressure points throughout the your abdomen area and um, upper chest. But. Enough damage. You can literally shut down a person's body so that's why you know hard hooks and like some boxers like so focus on literally just taking those side shots in the side of the person's frame because enough build up there. You know you can shut down a lung. You can make it very difficult for.

28:08.40

Paul

Are.

28:15.62

christophknoll

Heart to pump out blood to the you know strained muscles. So that's why you know everyone looks for the head shot Ko and in these you know mixed martial arts fighting sports but honestly body shot specialists are the people who are I think are the most deadly because they could shut down your whole body.

28:34.14

Paul

Yeah, yeah, no I hear you I don't really know too too much about fighting but I do know that um, attacking the body is usually the way to go. Um, you can knock someone out pretty easily but with head shots or head kicks. But um, you know going for the body is really where most.

28:43.50

christophknoll

Ah.

28:50.12

Paul

Ah, you know obviously like both boxers and most Ufc fighters really win obviously and then all also traps to like you know airway traps. But that's ah, that's Ufc specifically but boxing. Yeah definitely body.

28:52.33

christophknoll

Well just think about? yeah.

29:02.63

christophknoll

Think about how easy it is to lose your breath getting hit like you can do that running into like ah it would like a good good accidental run into like a door frame or something can knock the wind out of you and now imagine that repeated over and over again and you're still having to guard your head because.

29:04.73

Paul

Oh yeah.

29:12.44

Paul

Um, yeah, yeah.

29:20.45

Paul

Yeah, it is It is vouchers are wild. It's and you got to the the thing for me real just as as a quick side tangent the thing for me that's scary for boxers is um, your eyes like that's what's scariest to me.

29:20.47

christophknoll

That's also an error like it's crazy.

29:35.80

christophknoll

Oh.

29:39.25

Paul

Like because there's cauliflower ear people talk about but like they can still hear no problem. But like when you got your eyes and you're getting punched in the face. A lot of them start getting there there. Um, what's are called the Retina detached and everything and like you start losing your site and like that's what would be a problem for me like I could.

29:51.83

christophknoll

Yep, Well not just like not not just that. But there's also um, lazy eye stuff like I before I took on my coach part of like twice a week. My cardio was sparring with my buddy.

29:59.90

Paul

Yeah.

30:04.54

Paul

Um, yeah.

30:09.34

christophknoll

And you know we're we're both. We're both guys who live in rough parts of town. So we when we spards we're we're literally just boxing each other. It's not even sparring at that point and what ended up happening one time is I took a mean right? jab that just connected clean with my left eye.

30:09.79

Paul

Um, we are.

30:18.50

Paul

And.

30:28.14

christophknoll

And I didn't fish eye but I was like realizing that my depth reception was off because my site was not aligned so that's also part of it.

30:39.90

Paul

Yeah I would be I'd be hell tell terrified of that like I feel like I'd rather. Yeah, absolutely um I feel like though I would rather have my ear my my hearing go before my sight goes I think.

30:41.54

christophknoll

Yeah, but boxing is such a good workout.

30:51.12

christophknoll

The mozart effect.

30:53.46

Paul

Um, that way like yeah I think I think I could live I would rather live deaf than live blind because living blind. There's so much less you can do in life and literally okay let me move on it this way my entire. Main passion. The entire reason we have this podcast is because of our eyesight it is something that we are seeing from a bodybuilder. It is literally sight. It's how something looks right? So if I ever lost my sight I could never bodybuild again because I can't see myself in the mirror I can't. Like there's no point. There's no point to any of it. So I would immediately lose my main passion where with going deaf you could do really pretty much anything Else. You know you could do pretty much anything besides site you know, um, or besides hearing which which the the hardest part would come down to hearing. You know my family's voices and all that. But um I think I'd rather lose my hearing but that's a whole nother conversation. Um.

31:54.10

christophknoll

I'm trying to find a blind bodybuilder right now.

31:58.86

Paul

I would be very surprised I mean I've seen blind skateboarders and stuff and um I think there's blind motorcycle racers but a lot of that is also feeling too. It's how something feels so like that makes sense but like being a blind bodybuilder.

32:09.30

christophknoll

Yeah.

32:15.30

Paul

I would still train but I wouldn't I wouldn't bodybuild anymore because I can't see myself I can't see the competition I can't see anything. What's the point.

32:25.24

christophknoll

I just found a pro bodybuilder Rick welling this is early two thousand s rick welling is an if was an ifbb pro ah in it looks like overseas. Um. But he is blind. That's let me click on this video and see what this says.

32:47.57

Paul

He's Indian yeah completely blind and he has actually a really really good physique. Wow.

32:54.99

christophknoll

He's he's diced look Oh my God look at those shoulders look glit just as dels look at those oh my hold on else and.

33:01.89

Paul

I'm just looking at I'm looking at a Facebook post indian bodybuils of the world. Oh no, he's not indian remind he's british I think.

33:10.40

christophknoll

I'll send you the the video I just found it's wild. He's he's walking out someone walks out with him. Um, it looks absurd. Ah.

33:20.11

Paul

Um, yeah, he's got good doubts.

33:24.80

christophknoll

I Just emailed it to you.

33:24.45

Paul

He is completely is he really completely blind. He's got a stick a walking stick or whatever you want to call it.

33:33.96

christophknoll

I'm ah I'm watching his full routine right now but this is wild. He's okay, granted, there's no one next to him to compare to but he's got size. He's got so yeah, imagine.

33:43.16

Paul

He might be in his own class. Well he might be I mean I would even care about winning I'd just be happy to participate I'd just be happy to compete.

33:49.35

christophknoll

You got a class assigned just for you because you're blind and you just win. Regardless.

33:58.26

christophknoll

Now I'm going to go into the blind wheelchair division and you can You can tell to just how much time he spent with a posing coach because he's nailing these these poses in his routine.

34:03.41

Paul

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

34:14.97

Paul

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's pretty he's he's hitting it um get into like blind legs. Only.

34:19.30

christophknoll

He kind of has a he kind of has a bit of a a you know, bloated lower midsection but upper like the upper part of his frame is is incredible. He's just not sucking the gut. All that great.

34:33.40

Paul

Yeah I mean he's blind I mean that's that's his number 1 thing right? There is his. He's blind. Um, but yeah, so. I think this would be kind of a good segue a little bit into the arnold here. Um, yeah, so arnold happened. Um Friday and Saturday so ah, the classic physique division finished on friday.

34:52.63

christophknoll

Yeah I mean good. We're talking bodybuilder. So.

35:08.20

Paul

Men's physique and men's open finished up Saturday so ah, the arnold for men's open is a two day event. So I think they do prejudging Friday and then we did they do finals Saturday. Um, so let me see if I can find so I got the winners here but I want to see if I can find.

35:27.69

Paul

The rewards. No the rewards because they increase the yeah, it's going to say they increase the dollar amount. So okay, let me pull it up here I Want to look at it the same time.

35:27.73

christophknoll

All of the routines. Oh I got the rewards which one ah fitness Volt has them.

35:39.67

christophknoll

Are.

35:43.97

Paul

Okay, so well. Okay, so men's open is 300000 okay here we go so this is this is an article. Okay, so the sansson Samson okay, okay there we go classic physique 1 60 grand classic physique at the Olympia is 50 grand and. Men's open I think is two fifty um you look up. Yeah I'm saying for the olympia. Okay nevermind so the olympia is 400 grand for for men's open 60 grand for class of kik.

36:04.81

christophknoll

300 k for men's open at the arnold. Oh okay.

36:19.10

Paul

Um, and then men's physique just like any other division is not much money. It's 10 grand pro wheelchair didn't win anything which is sad. Um.

36:25.50

christophknoll

Yeah, that well I bet you they want just it's not a valuable that they want to throw on the site but I maybe some new spinners for the side.

36:33.42

Paul

I think I just think that like they should get I'm sort of that's fucked up baseball cards and spokes little little leds or on the rims or something. No, it's fucked up I think. They should have won something that's my opinion. But I mean it's a business. So I mean if they don't want to put money into it I get it. But um, first place for for men's open is three hundred Grand Sixth place which is a key millions twelve point Five k

37:08.94

Paul

That is such a huge difference? Um, but so yeah, so overall the results. So let's just start we'll start ah I guess the smallest in quotation go to the biggest so smallest men's physique Aaron banks. So.

37:09.12

christophknoll

And yep.

37:25.82

Paul

I' not surprised Aonbanks won um I think that he deserved it personally. But yes fitness volt has it so the same the same? Yeah yeah, well not the individual but the prejudging.

37:28.42

christophknoll

Do you is there a site that has their prejudging pictures that for individual the I say I want the individual.

37:44.36

Paul

Yeah, so that would be their routine. That's the individual. The prejudging is the group. Um, yeah, so his his overall routine I don't know I'm not the biggest fan of it. It's Mens's you you can't really do much. Anyways, it's I just I think it's just it's not really airon for me.

37:50.10

christophknoll

I'll go.

38:03.10

Paul

I guess during the routine. It's just the division in general I think that they only give you the 2 the 2 poses the front pose and the back pose. So it's like to make a routine out of it. It's really difficult so his routine is literally just doing the same pose like 4 times in a row but like. Walking across a stage and doing it and then like kind of like transitioning into it in different ways. But then his back poses I said the same thing at the olympia or for the olympia is that I'm not a fan of his back pose I don't know who came up with this. But for some reason your back the back poses. Like Aaron Banks and then others their elbows are like straight out. It's like their arms are parallel to the ground I don't get why it's a thing now. Um, it's in his his latin search.

38:49.44

christophknoll

I Think they're just I think they're just trying to over emphasize the the lats. That's that's I think that's why I agree but I think like just you know, physical physiologically wise like that's how you would spread them more I guess.

38:56.56

Paul

Um, it just looks goofy.

39:06.96

Paul

Right? I get that and I think he kind of he might need to have to do it because his latinsertions are very high his lower lats start at like the middle of his back. Um, so it's possible that that's the reason why he has to do it is because his latinertions are very very high. Um, but I mean overall I think conditioning-wise I think he deserved the win um his midsection which is fucking next level when it comes to the rest of the competitors. Um I think that personally I think Emmanuel should have gotten second over Diago. Ah, but that's just me I'm I'm more of a fan of Emmanuel's look versus iago's I think dago's midsection wasn't I think the rest of him was better. But I think his midsection is kind of what destroyed his look at least personally but I think that it could have gone either way I can see why he got second versus Emmanuel. But I think Emmanuel should have gotten a second. So that's.

40:04.78

christophknoll

Now I don't I don't know the the physique guys names off the top like I mean I have him in front I don't have him lined up is is Aaron Banks the ah the taller black guy in the middle. Okay, he's yeah, he's he's diced.

40:09.64

Paul

Um, yeah.

40:14.71

Paul

Yes, that's Aaron banks. He's the tall one with the green shorts. Yeah, he he keep me really really conditioned.

40:21.42

christophknoll

I mean and what and what's standing out for me compared to the other guys for his particular frame is how high set his his chest muscles are reaching so like who's the guy right to the left of him.

40:34.32

Paul

That if he's white or almost white is that's diago.

40:38.48

christophknoll

Yeah, so if you compare the 2 the chest muscles between the 2 of them like for Aaron banks. It's it's all the way up to his collarbone and their size so he's like got good upper chest and then if the guy what was the name that you just said add.

40:45.35

Paul

3 hour

40:56.40

Paul

Well Diego yeah, all yeah.

40:57.30

christophknoll

Diego um Diego he's got like good lower chest definition so you can see the curvage and everything but as it gets higher to his collarbone there just isn't anything or not anything but it's far less developed than with erinds. So that's what I'm seeing primarily out of him and.

41:11.40

Paul

Um, yeah.

41:16.10

christophknoll

I mean lower abs are so hard to get to poke out and you can see you can count all 6 very clearly for him and they're all aligned as well.

41:25.10

Paul

Yeah, yeah, his his midsection is crazy. Um I think so I know what youre saying with his pecs. He just he's got very very well-developed Peck. So overall his develop because the development is really there. It. It gives it a much fuller look ah so for diago. Um, he's got obviously all these guys have phenomenally developed hecks but Aaron's in comparison is what his posing is also a bit better diaago is kind of straight on where eron's to the side so is going to give the illusion that his pecks are bigger. Um, with the lighting and then diaago's upper. Chest isn't as developed as Aaron's is so ah, you know that's kind of where diaago fell a little bit short but Aaron's in pick and or abdominal insertions are just insane. He's got like perfectly symmetrical abs. Um, and they're just full every single time he comes to the show. So props.

42:22.50

christophknoll

I think another thing another thing too if you look at just this the the one picture that this site has where it's the 5 guys just or sorry 6 guys just standing there. You can almost feel the stage presence of Aaron Banks compared to the other one like.

42:33.73

Paul

Um, yeah.

42:40.29

christophknoll

Don't get me wrong. The other guys are posing and they're there but like it's almost like he's standing out in terms of just presence of just standing there and they're doing the exact same pose like granted, they all do it a little bit differently to get you know their own variations but it's I'm I'm getting like very you know.

42:45.63

Paul

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

42:59.77

christophknoll

Unique vibes where it's him and then there's just everybody else and I know that's how it is when you get put in the middle of a call out, but it's like it's just such a dominant vibe.

43:05.85

Paul

Um, yeah.

43:10.92

Paul

Yeah, and I think also kind of what plays into that is his height because he's got he looks much bigger than the rest of the guys even though like Diego looks wider because he's got more of a straight on pose but because. Because Aaron is so much taller. He looks much much bigger. Um, so I think that kind of plays into it and then also something that a lot of people don't talk about that I think people should take more into account is first of all posing trunks are going to play a huge role just this just the way they fit like look at how they fit Aaron Tight

43:48.40

christophknoll

You can see his glute like the side of his glute from this front post.

43:48.92

Paul

Throughout his entire quad and glute section right? Yeah exactly but then look at the guy who got 6 which I think is Edwin all the way to the left look at how those how that fit. Yeah, they look baggy. Yeah, so so exactly so that's going to play a huge role how they fit.

43:59.60

christophknoll

Yup Baggy Aggy those are basketball shorts.

44:08.24

Paul

Another thing that plays a role that I think that people should talk about because nobody talks about it. Um wait why is that wait am I looking at 2022 2023 okay I think they type I think they mis type that I think that's 20 We're looking at 2023 yeah

44:19.59

christophknoll

I'm looking at 23 oh oh wait twenty twenty two men's that has to be yeah because that's the exact backdrop that all the other ones have so that's yeah, they that's a miss type.

44:27.54

Paul

They they miss type it? Yeah, okay yeah, they just mistyd it. Okay I was like am I looking at last years okay got it all right? So um, okay, so also and another people don't what? um.

44:36.94

christophknoll

Ah, and it we know it's 2023 because later on if you scroll down it says ah view the full results of the 2023 ac men's physique here. So that's just a miss type.

44:47.31

Paul

Yes, yeah, so it's just a typo all right? So so okay so when you're looking at men's physique I think so with with class physique and men's open what your posing trunks look like is significantly less important. Um, but because there's so much cloth so much actual clothing involved in men's physique I think you should take into account what your opposing trunks look like you don't necessarily need perfectly symmetrical trunks which I think a lot of people try to to try to do Aaron won first place with asymmetrical trunks um with design at least the design is asymmetric.

45:20.79

christophknoll

Yeah.

45:22.29

Paul

So you don't necessarily need perfectly symmetrical trunks every other guy in the stage. Besides who got fourth. So whoever so to to the left of Aaron in the photo has the asymmetric. Yeah, everybody else is has symmetrical shorts I think you should also take into account the colors.

45:30.17

christophknoll

Yeah I can see one side as stripes. The other side is is straight.

45:41.12

Paul

The colors involved in your posing trunks because like look at look at emmanuels he like because of his darker skin tone the black posing trunks kind of blend a bit more with his overall physique. But because there's high contrast between Aaron Skin tone and the shorts that he's wearing.

45:58.24

christophknoll

It emphasizes.

46:00.39

Paul

It exactly emphasizes his physique. So I think that that kind of plays a role into how they look as well because color theory is very very important ah in just general in general design in general everything. So. Kind of you should take color theory into account kind of when you're picking your posing trunks not like science based but like be like okay I think that this you know like that green color really complements his physique I think if you went with like completely completely black shorts or something just very very very dark. It would kind of pull away from his physi a bit. Um, but then like I think in contrast if you're very very white and you're very very pale on stage. Even though there's tanning if you're very pale I think you should go with most likely darker shorts to kind of contrast that a little bit I think that'll kind of give you a better stage presence. Um, but that's just personally my opinion on it. But I think that he did they do do posing trunk changes I think I'm I'm pretty sure that the finals like his actual um, posing routine. He had different trunks on I think they might have been honestly the. Like reverse color of what he's wearing in the on the um prejut stage because they look very very similar but it looks the opposite color. So anyways, that's men's phsique I think that Aaron deserved it I just personally think that I would have changed it manuel to second but something to mention too which is actually something we see pretty pretty common with with a lot of the um.

47:15.14

christophknoll

Yeah.

47:33.12

Paul

Divisions is if you look at the Scorecard. So the way that the ivb scorecards work is the lower. The score you have the better your place than's going to be so basically how they do it is like let's say I'm a judge and there's there's we're going for top 9 right? Top 9 is what we're looking at that's one callout top 9 so. Who I place in first on my scorecard gets 1 point whoever I place in ninth gets 9 points right? So the the points the worse you're placing is so when you're looking at the scorecard.

47:58.50

christophknoll

Yeah, Aaron and and five five judges right.

48:07.24

Paul

Yeah, so that's what it looks like I don't exactly know how many judges there are but I would assume there's 5 judges based off the scorecards for this exactly and then Dieago got a unanimous second place and then um Emmanuel got a un unanimous third place then there's a unanimous fourth place. So.

48:10.33

christophknoll

His was a union. Yeah, his was a unanimous first place. Yep.

48:26.80

Paul

I like to see that because there's not much controversy there with the judges. You know it's a clear decision on who's going to win like in the past I think it was the last year's I think it was last year's Arnold. There was 1 year it might have been either last year's no I think it was I think it was 2021 Olympia it was between Nick and Nick Walker and Hunter Lebrada Hunter 1 by 1 point. So 1 person placed nick 1 point lower than the rest of the than the rest of the judges so hunter ended up taking the.

48:55.42

christophknoll

Yeah.

49:03.29

Paul

Ended up taking it so like something like that is a bit controversial because it could have gone either way but with like these scorecards it's clear cut exactly who won Aaron got a unanimous first decision. So I get that I just think personally ah we also got to take into account these guys look different in person than they do in photos and on camera.

49:19.72

christophknoll

Course course. Well it's just like and it's just like how your stage ready is not stage. Ready is maybe like at most avert and this is in total of days not like can like.

49:22.44

Paul

Like that. So you know who knows maybe the algorithm will look better in person.

49:39.55

christophknoll

Consistent days. But at most like one month of the year and that's at most because you're not staying this form for the like year round you know.

49:46.14

Paul

Oh you stay there this lean for maybe four days at the most. Yeah.

49:52.19

christophknoll

That's what I mean that's what I mean like and it's It's just that's that's why like we review these and it's great to look at these for like models and like oh I'm striving for this but you got you got to also keep in mind that what they look like outside. They're still. You know, phenomenally built outside of this.. It's We're not disputing that it's just how diced and lean. They are right now. That's that's a very small percentage of the time.

50:15.51

Paul

Um, yeah, yeah, with with all these divisions. These guys are getting if you come in any lower than I think four or five percent body fat. You actually can't regulate your body's hormones properly so you literally. Can't survive less than four or five percent body fat. So even though we're like oh these guys like phenomenal they came in this condition and whatever you can't survive at this level you have to have more fat.

50:34.69

christophknoll

I think.

50:42.16

christophknoll

Ah I think your body goes into like permanent fight or flight at 3 and anything less than 3 your body actually shuts down.

50:54.11

Paul

Well I know people have come in lower than 3 supposedly Ronnie Coleman came in less than three percent for some of his shows. It's happened is having plenty of times I'm sure a lot of these guys are less than 3% but you can't maintain it more than a couple days. Um.

51:09.35

christophknoll

I'd say more than I'd say more than half a day like just like and not anatomically like your body is not designed to be that low.

51:09.41

Paul

At that point it becomes a real problem.

51:22.42

Paul

Yeah, it's not um, that's why right? after a show they drink water and eat like junk food kind of um is to kind of you know.

51:28.78

christophknoll

Yeah, well, that's like the ah the the sea bum method where he ah he doesn't train doesn't worry about diet for what like you said a month something like that. Granted he's you know different. But.

51:39.17

Paul

Yeah, it's something crazy like that. Um and he usually goes on trips too. Yeah, he he usually goes on um, an international trip for a while too like he goes like Mexico or something for like a couple weeks right after the olympia and just. Like eats and eats and eats and just relaxes which I mean he deserves yeah and then he also does a pct after the olympia as well to completely come off shit. So there's that. So anyways I think moving on is you know we're at a good time to move on here so going on to the real one that everybody talks about.

51:56.60

christophknoll

As you should.

52:11.98

christophknoll

My guy My guy.

52:13.91

Paul

Especially argenary is classic physique classic physique. So um, so the way so I look when I you know you were obviously used. Yeah, so you and I chatted briefly before so when I saw the results on Friday night.

52:22.74

christophknoll

Before we do the breakdown before we do the breakdown.

52:31.89

Paul

I was like no fucking way Ramon be earth again I was like this is such bullshit. So I see earthrs his routine and I'm like Wow this dude looks fucking crazy I mean I don't his front double is kind of like to me. It's kind of weird like Earth his front double was kind of weird. It's like he pushes out his glute really far So it.

52:47.31

christophknoll

Actually I think I think earth's front double came in a lot better than it did at the Olympia.

52:52.81

Paul

Yeah, so I was like I think earth should have taken it I love u's look he totally should have taken that shit. But then I saw rammon's look and I was like okay yeah room one one I was like we're more one. It's just it for me. It came down to midsection and arms ramon's arms are much larger than Urs's and then his midsection was just much much more peeled than u's um, a Ramon's midsection was much more peeled than u's his abdominal insertions.

53:23.15

Paul

Just way more obvious. So I think that Ramon definitely should have taken first. Um, so that's that's where I stand on that. Um, but but I do appreciate that ur's got best poser out of all the classic phsi guys because I do think that ursz is posing is. Way ahead of Rammon's I just think the ramon had the overall better package. Um than it Ruth did so there's that.

53:44.87

christophknoll

Yeah I think the thing for me that I mean obviously I'm a ramon I'd like I'm biased in this entire conversation because of you know I fan boy over Ramon but um when I see there.

53:53.55

Paul

Yeah.

54:01.52

christophknoll

When they do the actual arnold pose. You know the one I'm talking about where it's that side lean like I'm looking at the spread right now. Um, and one the tricep to bicep size contour on Ramon compared to.

54:05.12

Paul

Um, yeah I'm looking at it too. Yep.

54:20.30

christophknoll

The only person I'm looking on stage that even competes sizewise as the guy all the way to the left and I'm thinking that guy only has the size because of how he's angled right now like ErsErrs has tone for sure but that just the sheer size is what I'm talking about.

54:28.50

Paul

Um, and.

54:35.11

Paul

Um, yeah.

54:37.15

christophknoll

And Ramon has that lockdown. But also if you just look at how he's posing compared to everybody else. He has that pose down and that I mean if you're at the arnold classic. No well I mean Urs has it but I'm talking Ramon specifically he has it down and.

54:44.72

Paul

Who ers.

54:54.60

christophknoll

If you're at the arnold classic you should want to have that pose you know, locked in look at the guy to the left of of ers. He's almost doing like a running stance like that's if if you're competing at the arnold classic. You need to kill this pose and I think just I mean Urs is there too. Don't get me wrong. He's.

55:00.57

Paul

Yeah, yeah, it's not very not a very compose.

55:13.30

christophknoll

Right? there behind and he's at honestly I think Urs has much better leg pop out in this particular pose than Ramon but I just think Ramon crushes this particular one in comparison to the other guy like it's it's almost laughable looking like not laughable like all of these guys deserve to be on stage I'm not. Just be doing that I'm saying it's laughable at how silly they are doing this pose compared to ers and Dino who are just you know locking it down in the middle. You know.

55:40.67

Paul

So so here's my thing with this pose so technically speaking Ramona is more on point with it in comparison to like Arnold and Arnold did it but I prefer Urs's version of it over amone's personally because you see more of his back.

55:49.33

christophknoll

Yeah.

55:57.37

christophknoll

I was going to say yep.

55:58.35

Paul

You see this his shoulders look wider his waist is just about the same Width Maybe a little bit wider but that should think is just a difference in physiques. Um, and I think that his personally his legs look better in the pose as well. Um, yeah.

56:12.58

christophknoll

That's what yeah, that's my big thing you can really see the hamstring pop out.

56:17.17

Paul

Yeah, so I think you know Ramon's more true to the actual pose. But I think I like Urs is more um I do like the insertions of the lat of I think it's Alex who got who's to the right? Um, yeah alex camber camp cambernaro I can't pronounce.

56:33.83

christophknoll

To the right of Dino.

56:37.13

Paul

Yes, to the right of Dino that's third place so I like his latinertions I think that he did the pose really really well as as well I think he pretty much nailed it. Um I think out of all of them. Yeah I think all of them I think Alex was the truest to it. Um, just because.

56:44.69

christophknoll

He just doesn't have the size. That's my thing.

56:55.50

Paul

His lats really bring the pose together. Um his Laura Lat connected to his ah to his outer latinist terrace major minor just really create like almost like bruion. Yeah literally yeah, that's wild. So I think that he nailed at the best. But I think he just doesn't have the size that Ramon has.

57:00.67

christophknoll

I was going to say you can You can actually draw a line like looking at that picture and. I mean it besides ers and and and maybe the no just urs like everyone else is like so much lighter.

57:25.90

Paul

Yeah.

57:26.83

christophknoll

And compare like weight wise like maybe not weight but just sizewise like that's mind blowing to me I mean granted a lot of it is body manipulation like the way likers Ers definitely has a hamstring focus in this pop like making sure that's standing out. Um, but because you can see how.

57:40.51

Paul

Yeah.

57:45.27

christophknoll

When Dino's doing it his left foot is forward in that you know you know weighted part of the stance to make sure he's true to the stance but with er's it's a little bit closer to his right? ah foot just so he can get that pop. But even with that the other guys on stage just don't have the size. And that's mind-blowing to me.

58:03.89

Paul

And I think if I'm looking at this correctly, the second to the left in that arnold pose photo that's Mike Summerfield and he did not come in that lean which is.

58:14.97

christophknoll

No, he did not his back is no definition and this is like this particular pose like regardless of how you do it. You're going to get like ers is really showing his upper. Um his upper back and then even we talked about the um, what's i. Third place where's his name. Um, um, third place with Alex how his lats are you know, really defining. You can draw a line but with Mike it's like he's just there like the only really definition is his rear dealts and maybe hit the the back of his arms but like his back is just.

58:39.98

Paul

Um, yeah I Just think.

58:52.30

christophknoll

Washed.

58:52.82

Paul

Yeah I think it just might be the pose to be honest, um, and see if I can look up his.

58:55.97

christophknoll

Do they have a back pose on this.

59:05.85

Paul

So all right? Um I let me see if I could find.

59:07.30

christophknoll

Also as a I'm looking at the card the card as well and Ramon just cleaned up. It was unanimous.

59:13.59

Paul

Yes, yeah I was going to say that with this too did the top 7 Ramon got dead first or is got dead second um it fifth everything up to fifth is pretty pretty on like.

59:19.48

christophknoll

As did Alex for third and Mike for second it's everything else where kind of blends.

59:30.86

christophknoll

Well even fifth we yeah.

59:31.36

Paul

Unanimous, um, fifth sixth and seventh because fifth is 26 points. So I think someone voted Jason Fifth and courage seventh I think is what happened but it was a clear sixth. Everybody agreed junior was sixth. Um, and then courage. Most of them agreed except for one that it was he was fifth and then Jason was 7 um, so I think that's what that comes down to but um I can't find any photos of Mike at the 2023 Arnold. Um.

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