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  • Writer's pictureHall of Gains and Hypertrophy Podcast

HGH #50 - SARMs and the Dungeon Gym


00:00.00

christophknoll

The big five zero or at the big five zero today Paul

00:05.39

Paul

Yeah, you know technically actually today is a year um I got a message on Thursday that we posted our first ever ever episode a year ago so yeah we've been doing this for a year because we have this would be our fiftieth.

00:06.83

christophknoll

Is it.

00:13.46

christophknoll

Wow! no.

00:20.88

Paul

Regular episode but we have our fitness audit and our influencer review so we technically have 52 episodes after today. So I've been in it for a year. Yeah yeah, we've missed a couple weeks. But.

00:29.60

christophknoll

That's wild that is wild and we have made millions and millions of dollars on this.

00:37.79

Paul

Oh for sure we're rolling in dough now. Um, but of definitely beyond that. Um I haven't sunk so much money into this but anyways, um so.

00:40.13

christophknoll

It pays for itself.

00:48.82

christophknoll

Yeah.

00:53.70

Paul

Yeah, but a year it's ah exciting appreciate you guys listening for those that have listened. um um I guess kind of like 2 10 tenothy 3 if you count locations? Well 4 if you count locations but 2 if you count.

00:57.28

christophknoll

How many gyms have we gone through in the in the year I've been to 3

01:13.20

christophknoll

Yeah, come.

01:13.51

Paul

Companies because I was going to 2 golds but they're all by the same people just 2 different locations and now go to mega flex which just 2 different locations so it just depends on how you look at it.

01:18.15

christophknoll

Yeah. Well that that doesn't show like what you have to do to to achieve your goals I know what does because we're both in it to win it and we're both bouncing around based on what we need.

01:35.90

Paul

Yeah I mean it I like change a pace so sometimes like going to elite. It was arguably like about the same or maybe not as good equipment as the Golds I was going to but I just wanted to change a pace in different atmosphere. So.

01:52.36

christophknoll

Yep.

01:52.57

Paul

Sometimes I just need that sometimes just need to change a pace and that's kind of where mega flex came from like the idea was like okay this is pretty sweet equipment like arguably just as good. Um, but there's also way less people and it's the same drive for me and it's roughly the same price. So let me just change it up now I have to deal with tons of people.

02:10.59

christophknoll

Yeah, look.

02:12.29

Paul

And then I got the second location I found out the second location was like fuck. This place is sick and so now I don't think I'm ever going to change at least not for multiple years if I needed to change base. But or if we move maybe if we move somewhere.

02:24.76

christophknoll

Yeah.

02:27.72

Paul

Because we do eventually want to buy a house. Not that right now is a good time because it is not but eventually so if we move somewhere north of here which I'm kind of hoping happens just because no like North isn't like 20 minutes north um

02:37.27

christophknoll

Like Massachusetts.

02:46.16

Paul

So if we move north which I'm hoping happened just because my wife's work is like the northern part of Charlotte It's like the very top tip of Charlotte. Um I'm hoping that if we move north I can start going to crush a coliseum which for me right now is like 45 minutes but if we move like 20 minutes or more in that direction. Ah, prior would just make the drive up to crush coliseum but it's just 45 minutes it's like I think I did the math it was like ah almost a gallon of gas 1 way or something with the gas prices right now I'm spending like 7 eight bucks

03:05.76

christophknoll

Yeah.

03:23.82

Paul

A day going there if I were to you know and I'm going. Let's say like five days a week and let's just say let's round down to like seven bucks for instance right let's say seven bucks five times a week. Um, that's what thirty five bucks a week so we're talking like one hundred forty hundred and fifty bucks what just say like one hundred and fifty bucks a month.

03:25.30

christophknoll

Yeah.

03:36.64

christophknoll

Yeah I can do math.

03:43.39

Paul

Just a drive there not to mention sixty bucks a month to actually go there. You know so it's just like hey not worth it right now but maybe down the road.

03:46.69

christophknoll

Yeah, yeah, plus when you get your ev then it's a whole other story.

03:56.63

Paul

Yeah I'm starting to ah lean away from evs the more I learn as far as like the cobalt mines and the I know you know there's a lot of safety precautions as far as fires go and all of that so I'm not letting like batteries catching on fire to deter me. But it's like the other thing that. Really deterred me recently was that I found out if you get a tesla not that you have 1 but if you get a Tesla or something like that and you're using a tesla superchar station. You're supposed to hop lanes kind of like a urinal right? If you're like in a immense's bathroom. You're supposed to have a urinal spaced out. It's like that because the supposedly the the charger next to one. It'll say like 1 a and 1 b or something and it's because they're using the same main port of electricity or something like that so you actually like let's say somebody's using one a and then you go to use 1 b you actually cut the electricity power like. Output in half because you're now taking up someone your side or something like that a video watching that this guy was like he has a tesla iss like this is one of the biggest problems with Tesla supertar stations is that you have to hop these lanes or else you're going to cut your time in half and sometimes you you have no choice. So so it was just interesting.

05:07.13

christophknoll

I mean that didn't happen when I've gone to Tesla superchargers but it is what it is.

05:11.60

Paul

Yeah, this is what he said I mean I think it's also because you don't have a tesla so I don't think you can use like the full Tesla supercharged like experience or something.

05:18.72

christophknoll

No, you can. It's just because Tesla's opening it up. It's just select locations.

05:25.21

Paul

Ah I did see that didn't nissan say that they were like taking up the production of like Tesla supercharge stations or something some companies say that they're going to do it.

05:33.39

christophknoll

Well tessla just you have to have an account with them and we have Tesla solar panels so we have an account with them so we're able to for the ones that are open to non testa cars. We're able to utilize it.

05:41.26

Paul

Yeah.

05:49.81

Paul

Well I'm saying like didn't Nisau and announce that they were like building out more supertro stations. Yeah I Want to say I've read something about that that they're building out more for them like it is like to help increase their infrastructure. Um, but apparently in the Eu It's actually bitch like your cars are bitch because.

05:53.00

christophknoll

I wouldn't put it past him.

06:07.66

Paul

Everything so old out there. You can't just like build more superar like you can't just like build up electric so charging stations like you can hear because there's so much space here in the us for those but ah people in ah Europe right now who are our listeners. Not sure if that's accurate just what I've heard um is that it's it's very hard to find. I mean it might be different now. But I remember a couple years ago I was watching the video of the guy who got a porsche take in I think it was and he's talking about how like he he was so excited for it. Got it and that he realized how little number of electric charging stations. There were in Europe and like the closest one was like almost 60.

06:42.70

christophknoll

Ah.

06:44.22

Paul

Yeah, think you said ninety kilometers or something away from him which for the us it's like almost sixty kilometers sorry sixty miles because what the fuck is a kiilometer. Um, ah yeah, um, yeah, so I think it's like sixty miles or something away from him is like the closest electric star station.

06:50.85

christophknoll

Yeah I measure in freedoms by Bald Eagle yeah

07:03.17

Paul

Um, so anyways, um yeah I'm starting to lean away from them just a little bit.

07:05.80

christophknoll

I Was gonna say but I was gonna say believe it or not We are not a car a podcast but we know we know our stuff.

07:13.14

Paul

Yeah, a little a little bit. Yeah, um I would love a mock E though I'm a Ford Bock E I don't call it a mustang because it's not a mustang but I'd love a moey those things.

07:22.75

christophknoll

It's a mustang. It's a mustang.

07:24.98

Paul

Can't stand that shit I'm like there's no reason to call it like it's all marketing. There's no, there's nothing about it that makes it a mustang according to the company but I just can't stand it Anyways I'd love one. But yeah, we'll see if I can get any electric card Definite would be a Hummer ev.

07:32.00

christophknoll

It's a mustang. Ah.

07:40.37

christophknoll

That was I the the yeah okay see yeah I'm gonna dork out if we keep talking about this so anyways episode 50 today. Um.

07:45.55

Paul

Yeah, yep.

07:50.66

christophknoll

For those for a quick update who don't know I switched to from empire which is in the lemits area to vanarchy in the gardener area. Paul's home gym. It's it's an absolute dungeon. It's perfect. Um, that.

07:57.50

Paul

Yesterday. Love it.

08:05.99

christophknoll

It it was funny I walked in and I was talking with Van and I was like hey man. Ah, here's my card and he was like oh cash or check nothing else and I was like cool all right? So yeah, so then just winning got everything cash. My my biggest Atm poll of all time.

08:13.66

Paul

Yep I should have warned you of that My bad. Yeah I should have warned you as let's just cash.

08:25.38

Paul

Yep.

08:25.65

christophknoll

Um, and then yeah, it's been great just going around and seeing all the old equipment that isn't around like I found a cable preacher curl I haven't seen ever a cable preacher curl like other than like setting up like an actual like like like pulling a bench over to do it. But this was an actual with the.

08:29.60

Paul

Me.

08:38.87

Paul

Oh yeah.

08:45.16

christophknoll

Like the the in or a decline for your arm into a cable with like it's a dedicated preacher curl machine and it's cable and it is. It's so cool like I've just I've never been able to see something like that.

08:50.45

Paul

Yeah, see only thing you can do on that. Yeah.

09:01.72

Paul

Yeah, yeah, they um they got the overhead extension machine too which is rare. You don't see shit like that. There's so much stuff there that you don't ever see like the high the high curls you you see that one yet in the other room in the second room.

09:11.63

christophknoll

I So I saw and I I was trying to figure out how to use it and I I haven't figured it out yet. So yeah.

09:18.80

Paul

Yeah, so you put your elbows up on the pads and then you curl like this So it's like a high curl. It's kind of like doing cable face curls or whatever like faces like this but it's up on the machine so you're doing the same kind of movement but it's ah machine based that one was cool when you got that everybody was using it when you got that in.

09:23.62

christophknoll

Yeah.

09:32.23

christophknoll

Yeah.

09:33.95

Paul

Um, there is the super lying leg curl that he got um which is next to the tbar row kind of close to that cable machine. So he when I was there last um, a month ago he was telling me the story about that where he had to drive to long island to get it and he ended up hitting traffic because he he hit New York city like

09:38.40

christophknoll

Yeah I saw that.

09:52.46

Paul

During rush hour so he was like six seven hours into this drive that should have been like 4 and he like almost turned around because he was over it but it was the only place you can get this 1 machine at and he said he just decided to stick it out and got it and brought it back. But it's it anything that said.

09:53.99

christophknoll

Doug G.

10:10.72

Paul

Any sort of leg equipment that says super in it is fucking sick I don't know why it's called super. It's just the way it's driven or if it's just the way the the weight is displaced I'm not sure what actually makes it super I Think it's just the way The weight is displaced because super leg extension is super like curls. The it's like chain driven.

10:15.90

christophknoll

Yep.

10:30.30

Paul

And the like bar that actually holds the weight between the pads is like between your legs So like the lion leg cur like you know what? I'm talking about it's like between your legs Um, same with the leg extension that they have there. That's a super leg extension the the bar that actually has the weight attached to it is between your legs.

10:38.34

christophknoll

Yeah.

10:49.70

Paul

So I think that's what makes it a super like whatever but I don't know I have no idea I dishes my guess so one similarity.

10:55.22

christophknoll

Well my favorite. My favorite thing I hit yesterday because I did a leg day yesterday. But I'm coming off of so many leg injuries that I still can't do much of anything like I'm literally just in there trying to keep maintain what I have um and they have a seated leg curl. But you it's like hitting the naws on on like a fast and fur its like you have 2 bars that you push forward to help the weight get up you slide into it then you're seated kind of like like at a ah a little bit of an incline and then you're curling and it's like a. It's called like the belt curl because there's a belt that ah ah, connects the weight to the actual piece that you're moving and it's just such a cool little piece of of equipment. Um, but yeah, they have a lot of wonky stuff. It's really it's really cool

11:35.52

Paul

And.

11:43.78

Paul

Yeah, yeah I love that gym they got they got some old stuff. You'll never find anywhere. There is they got those new. Um and the side room in the back I tried those new. Ah, the new Chess press machine over there. That's like independent I love that So it's pinloaded chess press.

11:54.42

christophknoll

4 was that.

12:01.10

Paul

I mean it's not the only thing on the market. That's like it but each arm is independent so that's sick I love that? Um, so my favorite equipment is the Hamburg strength equipment that's ah it's got 2 pin stacks on each side so one on each side and it's independent I love that. But ah yeah, that machine does the same thing.

12:13.73

christophknoll

Yep, well they have they have the unilateral ah leg extension too I've never seen one of those I've only seen joint leg extensions and I mean you can do.

12:21.66

Paul

Yeah.

12:27.50

christophknoll

Single leg leg extension on a joint one but but like you just you know, lower the weight and just use 1 leg but this is one that's truly like separated half and half so at that never seen one like that either.

12:36.79

Paul

Yeah, yeah, know it's It's sicked I got cool equipment I'm glad you're going there now. How's the drive nothing. Yeah, exactly.

12:42.76

christophknoll

Yeah, there is one oh bro I can I can walk there. Um, and in fact, where my my girlfriend and I are looking at a place. Um, that would actually be like I could. Crawl there if I need if I need to like it's literally 2 streets off of it. Yeah, um, there was 1 machine where I try and um, it's a leg press and the machine moves with you and you're lying completely horizontal.

13:05.35

Paul

That's awesome I wish I was that close to gym. They'll be nice.

13:17.52

Paul

Yeah, it's a whole. It's probably a hoist or something like that.

13:19.11

christophknoll

Um, yeah, but it wasn't oiled so it was creaking like and so my my girlfriend was in it and she got stuck and she's like did the lock like engage and I was like no I didn't see anything. We just had to force it back into place and I'm like I.

13:37.36

Paul

Yeah, that's some of the equipment there. That's it's funny. It's day like it's just some of it's just so old. Um, you just got to keep oiling it buddy. Yeah, it's it's fun. It's every piece is got. It's like ah I was going there long enough to really like.

13:37.71

christophknoll

But not going to use that 1

13:55.54

Paul

Know the quirks of each piece each piece almost has like a personality you have to learn you know and it's like it's it's got its thing each piece got its thing. There's something that you got to avoid or something you gotta like the like the chess flag the Pec deck there the plates in the pins will get stuck so like you'll do like.

13:57.79

christophknoll

Um, yeah, yep.

14:08.94

christophknoll

Yep.

14:12.84

christophknoll

I Felt that actually.

14:14.36

Paul

Like let's say like you do like a hundred pounds you do like a hundred pounds and 110 will come up and then it'll drop in the middle of the rep. Yeah.

14:20.96

christophknoll

Well so what happened that that happened I I was doing it and I heard a big clang and I was like I'm at the top of the rep like the rep The weight is not hitting down I was like looking around I was the only one in the gym and I was like what the fuck just happened. Ah.

14:29.32

Paul

Yeah.

14:37.79

Paul

Yup, yeah, it sticks I don't know how that happens at all, but it it must have been just like grease or something built up and it just sticks and it'll literally carry another pinned plate with it and I'm just like like I'll be doing like reared out flies and I'm like fuck this is heavy. And I'm like fourth wrap in and then all of a sudden it gets lighter and I'm like oh like ding I'm like oh that's why yeah, literally like it's like ah like a greased up drop set by accident like it's just.

14:55.34

christophknoll

Ah.

15:00.21

christophknoll

The the built-in drop set.

15:12.30

Paul

Yeah, it's it's everything's got its quirks. It's all it's all got its it's all got us things. It's like you learn the same thing with like treadmills. Not necessarily there but you do there but I like the gym I go to now each treadmill the way the belt feels under your feet is different. So like 1 machine almost has like a little bit of a stutter when you walk on it.

15:23.23

christophknoll

Yeah.

15:30.73

Paul

And then there's others that are like super smooth and then there's ones where like you can't really touch the um, the digital part like the big digital platform because it's so creaky and loose that I feel like I'm gonna fucking rip it out of the machine. So I try to just touch the bar. But. Yeah, everything's got his little quirks and whatnot. So. It's fun. It's fun to learn that and like I said it before like it took me like a solid like 2 3 weeks or even a month to really understand like everything that they got there.

15:55.34

christophknoll

Oh yeah I mean I still don't I still don't know like I yesterday I did like walk around like for a lot of it like I because I was trying to show my girlfriend like what's there and I I still don't know a lot of what was there like I walked by like this one machine I was like.

16:05.35

Paul

Yeah.

16:12.27

christophknoll

Honestly, don't you know what that is. We'll find out later.

16:15.23

Paul

There is one that's I've seen ah other another gym I actually had not that it was at Vanarchy it was at Crush E Coliseum I actually had to ask the front desk guy I was like what is that like I tried there's no,, There's no diagram like nothing There was. There's like a pad here and a pad here right? and then there's like a chair down here. So I'm sitting in front of it and I'm like is it like a curl and I try to curl with like my wrists and it just goes straight up and I'm like okay that's not it So I'm like trying to do like a forearm thing I'm like Nope That's not it and then it's also throw me off because right in front of you. There's like um like a fish eye Mirror. You could see so it's a mirror like it's not like an accident. It's purposely there. It's built into the machine and it's a mirror and I'm like why is there a mirror on this machine on what the fuck is going on here. So. I ask them and you put your arms in it like this and you do you do? ah fucking shoulder shrugs. Yeah I'm just like what the fuck is yeah so like that's some of the equipment there. Um, you gotta try these super leg press I think it's the green pin machine that one's fun or a super hack squat or something like that I Forget what it's called.

17:12.18

christophknoll

So it's a shrug. Yeah.

17:28.55

Paul

And there's also the ego like press I think it's called the Ego leg press. It's cyex that one's really fun. Um to use as well. So you gotta check out both of those like press equipment there and then obviously if they're kneeling like curl I go to one of the gym I go to location wise for my hand day.

17:35.70

christophknoll

Um, yeah.

17:46.60

Paul

Simply because they have a kneeling light curl machine I Love kneeling light curls so you got to use that kneeling late curl. It's the same one that I have at my gym here. You got to use it. It's so good. Such a good ham pump.

17:50.70

christophknoll

Yeah. Well empire had one of these and I never used it but van has one so I decided yesterday to do it. It's I I want to say it's called like a swing squat or something like that where you load your pendulum there. You go and.

18:08.76

Paul

Pendulum. Yeah.

18:12.20

christophknoll

I like just to test I was like we're gonna do no weight you know've never done this before and in my fourth or fifth rep I mean granted I'm super weak in my legs right now because I'm been injured all for but now all the past four or five months um but I looked at my girlfriend I was like help.

18:15.36

Paul

And.

18:21.35

Paul

Yeah.

18:28.72

Paul

Yeah, yeah, it humbles you yeah it really does humble. You.

18:30.90

christophknoll

I I'm dying and so it's it's intense. Yeah I think I was I was I only like top set loaded like £50 onto it like max um like at 25 each side? Um, but it was just like wow this is insane.

18:40.50

Paul

And her.

18:47.38

Paul

Yeah.

18:48.85

christophknoll

Um, and then of course I hunted for it and I found the hydraulic 1 just because that it's just so goofy I like it. Um the the pressure gauge is stuck though. It's stuck in like the hard position. You can't move it from medium or low. Um.

18:52.76

Paul

Her.

18:59.33

Paul

Yeah.

19:05.72

christophknoll

And it's not. It's not that hard. But it's a good like rep out at the end of the workout like burnout whatever is left. Um, but I put my legs on the ah incline platform that was there like instead of doing a flat one and it like Torch my calves because of the angle because the pendulum you know swings with you.

19:10.17

Paul

Yeah.

19:25.50

christophknoll

But this is coming straight down and if your legs are pointed out like that. It's like tearing the muscles fibers of your calves.

19:27.14

Paul

Ah.

19:32.76

Paul

There's a machine at this I know exactly we're talking about. Yeah, it's I think if that was closer to what's that yeah you could yeah and I think if they put it closer to the leg work.

19:35.52

christophknoll

And it's it's I was gonna say it's almost like a Caf Phrasese If you do it like that.

19:47.24

Paul

Pieces throughout the gym I think it would be it would be better for like like you said like a burnout at the end but it's kind of it's kind of far away from a lot of the like equipment in the last I used it. It was like kind of out of the way. Um.

19:56.32

christophknoll

It's it's hidden in the in the very back room the one that has the ah the cable preacher curl. That's that's where it's hidden now.

20:04.40

Paul

Yeah, yeah, it's kind of far away from all the late equipment. So it's hard to like walk over there and start doing it. But um, the the gym I go to has a plate loaded version of that machine which I've used before.

20:15.36

christophknoll

Interesting.

20:18.67

Paul

And I've used even like so there's a few different versions of that machine. Ah where like I use 1 down in Florida when I was visiting there in June and that was interesting because the way it was built. It was like a very small platform. So when I stacked all the plates on there I actually filled out the bar I couldn't put any more on there. Like fuck it I'll just do the best I can and I was shaking the whole machine I thought I was going to tip over because the platform on the bottom was so so narrow like I legit was shaking the machine and then the one at the gym I go to now has way bigger bars and is like chain driven rather than like ah like ah is almost like a pendulum.

20:42.97

christophknoll

Ah, yeah.

20:56.86

Paul

So like at the one I go to now it's like it's on a it's on the same like pivot right? It's got the same fulcrum to it but the weight is instead of it being on my shoulders basically where it was in Florida um, it's like down below and the chain is attached to the like top of the machine up here.

21:03.14

christophknoll

Yeah.

21:16.18

Paul

So the weight is like down way down in front of you and moving up and down as you squat? Um, so that's pretty intense when you can actually like put a good amount of weight on a machine like that. It's pretty intense to experience especially when you do in the ah cause I did the ah the incline that you're talking about and I did it quad focused so I had my feet close together. Was doing that and you're just like crushed by the machine and then you just blast right? out of it. It's such a weird feeling because you're literally like folding in half. But then your your quash just drive you right out. So yeah, it's a good one. It's a good one.

21:35.18

christophknoll

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

21:44.71

christophknoll

Yeah, and then I will say and Van would like it when he was showing me around he like brought me here first I could tell he was like super excited about it was um, it's a lower.

21:54.90

Paul

Oh yeah, no I'm he just he's excited general. He's just always got a smile on his face. Yeah.

21:58.54

christophknoll

No, no, not that one. It's a different piece of equipment Im a lower ab. Oh yeah, yeah, um, it's a lower ab. Um, so you you you seatbelt your quads in and you're seated in a. Already crunched over position and you lift your legs and it's your it's It's an a like a thing of like a seatded reverse ab crunch if that makes sense So and so you know an ab crunch Machine. You curl down right? this one your top stays.

22:28.65

Paul

Yeah, yeah.

22:34.71

christophknoll

Locked and your legs are what come up and so yeah, it's and he was like dork and I like showing me it and I was like this is so cool.

22:35.50

Paul

Oh interesting that sounds fun.

22:44.41

Paul

Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. He's ah he's always like like that's I think what his favorite thing is it's like these collect these pieces like he didn't need that buying leg curl but like he wanted it because it's hard to find you know like he's like he's borderline the collector honestly and he's like it's It's almost like um.

22:54.26

christophknoll

Yeah.

23:00.76

christophknoll

Um, yeah.

23:03.61

Paul

It's almost like in a way. It's kind of like his gym is like ah like a ah like a yeah like a fitness equipment museum that you could like use like that's what it's like there. Um, and it's just it's just really fun because there's just so much equipment there that you'll never see anywhere else.

23:08.58

christophknoll

Museum.

23:22.50

christophknoll

And it's he has so many mirrors which is also really nice and like I'm finding throughout the gym different spots where the lighting is just absurd like the weirdest spot is looking through.

23:23.75

Paul

It's it's sick. Yeah. When.

23:37.40

christophknoll

If you have the bathroom door open and you can see into the bathroom and have the mirror facing back out at you in the ah lying leg curl and ah seated. It's like the little leg room right? there the 1 overhead light if you're facing it is just.

23:39.77

Paul

And then.

23:54.84

christophknoll

Phenomenal warm lighting.

23:56.48

Paul

Yeah, it's crazy how much the gym has changed since I started going there So when I started going there the back room with the um other mirrors and the the good lighting over there that was never that wasn't there when I started there so that's that's new ish not anymore. But. But I started going there that wasn't there. We need to go left right? after the desk that wasn't there that whole section wasn't there. The women's be the women's bathroom which that gets to the right, right? right? You walk in that was the men's bathroom. The men's bathroom now was the woman's bathroom and locker room and then um. A lot of the equipment that you'd find that's like super grungy like extra grungy um like the light curl that has like the pad with like the little but black bar that comes over it. Um, they used to have this hack squat like they had all this different stuff was down in the basement. Um, which you'd go past you go like.

24:40.75

christophknoll

Yeah.

24:50.78

Paul

Pass the mag grip attachment board. You take the left there and you go down the stairs. That's where all the other stuff was and the ceiling was so low like just buildings so old. The ceiling was like only like seven feet tall so like the ceiling's not much higher than like the average person right? and they actually I think at one point.

25:00.89

christophknoll

Smith.

25:10.21

Paul

So we would go down there for like hack squats and shit there was some random equipment down there. But I think where they stop going down there because there's mold or something like that like it was like some sort of health concern or some shit. So they start moving the equipment up and people stop going down there because there's you can't go down there anymore but like that was down there. So like.

25:20.13

christophknoll

Yeah.

25:29.12

Paul

The whole gym was so incredibly different than what it is now and like all the spray paint stuff all that like the banarchy gym. Whatever the on the wall that wasn't there like there's so much less equipment when I started going there. It's crazy to see how far it's come and like that side room that backroom that you that we mentioned. Originally the idea of that was supposed to be a calisthenics room so they had like a rock wall that a bunch of ropes and like monkey bars and shit like that in there and like a couple pieces of equipment that are kind of tucked away like not really intruding on that. But then like I think people just weren't really using it that in the way that van intended. So then he just kind of turned it into like an equipment room to like have like more space for that and then like for years they were building out that back room with the kitchen and shit now they have like the kitchen you can use now like the microwave and all of that they didn't have that when I started going there so like that was exciting because he like announced it like a year after started going there like oh we bought the other side.

26:09.66

christophknoll

Yeah.

26:26.68

Paul

So we're going to build it all out. It took a while which is understandable. It's not like he's got a big team. It's like him and like a couple other people really? but um, yeah, it's excited to see how far he's come and how how much people have changed in general like I always knew van is if I saw his Hummer there. I knew he was there but he doesn't drive the hummer anymore. It's had so many issues he just doesn't drive it anymore. But yeah, it's it's wild. It's come such a long way. It's it's great to see he really deserves it. But.

26:51.46

christophknoll

Yeah, and I mean it's like I thought empire was like a professional legit gym for like you know the bodybuilding scene but this is like the absolute like epitome of like because you're in there. It's a it's I know it's not actually dirty. But I like in my mind compared to the other ones I consider it and it's not dirty like in the sense of you know germs or whatever but it's like it's a dank place and it's like you're in there for like 1 reason it's to workout. You're not there as an influencer. You're not in there for a fucking anything. You're just fucking doing your your shit and yet now. Like and that's what I want like it's perfect.

27:31.14

Paul

Yeah, it's the atmosphere like you say it's not that it's dirty. It's not. It's the atmosphere. Um, and when I even when I first started going there. You'll notice it now that I mention it The floor is all black foam pads right? Everything's black foam pads like the you almost like ah like a.

27:35.74

christophknoll

Yeah.

27:47.46

Paul

Like a dojo or something right? like the you like interlock them kind of like legos. Yeah, most of it A lot of it is yeah, not not everywhere. But yeah, so when I first started going there. Everything was like that it was all like red carpet and like duct taped everywhere that it's ripped.

27:47.89

christophknoll

In the center area in the center area that the the side is like car. It's like carpeted office space.

28:07.20

Paul

And whatnot like it was so grungy like it was like it was nowhere near what it is now and Covid really made them crack down on being clean and all that shit and like vacuuming whatnot So like that even took them to the next level being clean so it was like it was so different when I started going there.

28:23.42

christophknoll

Yeah.

28:24.93

Paul

Um, and they had to crack down during covid like lifting without a shirt and shit like that because I think a Cdc like some sort of like rap or something was like on their ass constantly during covid um, in Massachusetts I think they were like that with a lot of gyms but ah like there were like yeah like I've posted a video isn't like December I was like. Somehow sweating I don't know how the hell I was sweating but I posted a video of me training without a shirt on I was doing the machine incline press which is such a good machine. You got to use that machine in the corner by the dumbbells. You got to use that incclined press plate loaded machine. It's so good. But I was using that and um.

28:56.86

christophknoll

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

29:03.50

Paul

Unk re like yeah we can't have you doing that anymore because the Cdc is cracking down and all that and like we just like we can't have any sort of remote contamination. Granted this was like it was kind of peak covid. It was like December Twenty Twenty like that's understandable, but like yeah, it's it was a diff completely different place. Um.

29:13.76

christophknoll

Yeah.

29:21.12

Paul

When I first started going there versus now which it's it's changed I think for the Better. Um, But what's great is that there's also been extremely loyal people. You know there's there's guys I've talked to there that have been going there since it was called Worlds Van I think worked there when it was called Worlds Gym. And then he bought it and turn it into vanarchy I think just some sort of like copyright issue or something with the name when he like bought it and kept it as worlds but he turned it into vanarchy and like people been going there since it was worlds Even so like it's it's the loyalty. There is great. It's just ah I wish I could just pick it up and bring it down here. But I I Just can't It's just.

29:50.77

christophknoll

Yeah.

29:59.35

Paul

Every time I go there though I'm like it's just a gym. It's just whatever. But then I go there like fuck is Jim's good like I miss it so much you know. But yeah yeah i.

30:06.47

christophknoll

And you can you can lift without a shirt and again that that's that's possible again like it's I'm I'm one of the most clothed people there and I'm wearing like you know so I have my different like muscle cut t-shirts. Ah but also like my my I cut. Like into the sides of my shirt So I have breathability down like my the whole core. Basically um, and even that I'm one of the most clothed people there.

30:29.84

Paul

Yeah, yeah I mean it's It's better now but they had to crack down for a while I did someosing without a shirt on they didn't say anything. Um, so I was like I figured it'd be fine. So um, yeah I Just miss it though.

30:41.67

christophknoll

I think it's also the time of day because like my I've done 3 workouts there so far 2 of which have been at Nine P M and I mean there's already not a lot of people that go there which is also what I love but 9 p m there was me and 2 other people in the in the gym.

30:46.72

Paul

Yeah.

30:50.87

Paul

Yeah, yeah.

30:59.64

Paul

Yeah, that's well, that's when I went when they told me that I had to wear a shirt because I posted it to my Instagram and I was like my how like I missed it and I love this machine. Whatever and they told me that I had to put a shirt on and I was training at like that time like I honestly think it was like ten thirty I think it was the only one in the gym.

31:01.60

christophknoll

Like and that's that's beautiful like and.

31:07.71

christophknoll

Yeah.

31:18.50

christophknoll

Yeah.

31:19.60

Paul

But it was like it wasn't it wasn't that I was that like they weren't cool with it. It was just that like if they were caught with something like that going on then they would get fine and shit like that. So like I understand you know I respect them enough to like not disrespect them in that way. So like I had no problem wearing you know clothes and whatnot. Um. But 1 thing you're gonna experience you haven't yet. It's not so bad now. Um the lack of ac is cool. It's sick. There. Um, it doesn't get I mean obviously like you're not used to down here but to me it doesn't get too hot up there. So I was pretty comfortable training there. It can get pretty warm in there but then during the winter. Only got like space heaters so it gets cold as shit in the winter there like um, most days I train there it was like sweatshirt sweatpantts until like towards the end when I'm like drenched and then that's when I take my shit off and finish up and then I put my sweatshirt sweatpantts back on you know it. It gets cold.

32:01.80

christophknoll

That mean.

32:09.52

christophknoll

I Love the cold so doesn't bother me.

32:14.33

Paul

Yeah I'm the opposite I can't stand it So like I can't and the problem is like I love training whether it's hot and I'm drench and sweat. Um and I think it just helps with my blood flow Honestly like I think I get a better pump when it's when it's hot I could be wrong but I feel like if I've been a. Ah definitely if you have been in the sun. That's why I like to go.

32:26.33

christophknoll

Yeah.

32:32.91

Paul

Been doing a lot of taning lately and I I like to go tanning before I hit the gym because it opens up my pores it. It makes my skin feel good and I think it honestly helps with my blood flow because I come out of that of that I think more vascular than I did going in every time I have gone tanning I've experienced that so I like the heat. And I did speaking of sweat actually I did message my my coaches was like hey so since I supposedly took trend I feel like I've been sweating a lot more ever so like ever since I pinned it the first time and he's like yeah trend supposedly ah changes your body like crazy. Like permanently basically like your your body changes permanently. The second you start taking it and I guess that that's just what it changed about me is that like now I sweat like a motherfucker no matter how how much I train like I'll be like like a couple movements in and I'm like dripping you know.

33:11.50

christophknoll

Yeah.

33:25.56

christophknoll

Sir.

33:27.43

Paul

And I also have to be I almost have to be careful of it like if I'm spotting someone I have to like lean a little bit back so that because I can't feel on my chin because of my facial hair. Yeah I don't want to drip on their face I'm like like spotting them like a fucking chicken or some shit and I'm like I'll help you and like is like dripping on my shirt. Um.

33:33.55

christophknoll

You start gripping on them. Ah.

33:39.77

christophknoll

Ah.

33:44.87

Paul

But yeah, it's like I don't realize how sweaty I get until I take off my shirt and I'm like okay I'm pretty sweaty but then I like grab my shirt I'm like yeah, it's like it's just dip. It's like soaked and like fucking I could like ring it out I'm like Jet damn.

33:58.50

christophknoll

The up.

34:00.97

Paul

Ah, so it's just it gets it gets rough sometimes. But yeah I love to I love the heat. Um, speaking of that um transition of the century ibutaen MK 6 seven seven so

34:14.38

christophknoll

Well yeah, so this is ah the conversation we'll be doing for the rest of the episode today and where it kind of comes from. Um if you don't recognize what? yeah yeah, if you don't recognize the the code word that Paul just said um, that's ah, that's a sarm and ah.

34:17.63

Paul

Yeah, we kind of.

34:26.40

Paul

Yeah, yeah.

34:31.43

christophknoll

There's like I mean when you're natural, you use, whatever natural supplements. Ah you want to use but you will lose your natty card if you you know take sarms and we're gonna be talking about sarms because it's been in my mind for a while I think. Paul and I talked about it first for me I mean just as an idea probably like six months ago something like that. Um, and you know that's part of it as well. Like well we're gonna be talking about this kind of stuff you can just buy like.

34:55.16

Paul

Yeah, while ago.

35:06.44

christophknoll

As whenever you want. It's not like the alleged stuff that Paul allegedly takes like this stuff you can just order on the internet and get it. You know next day if you do fast shipping like it is readily available. So the the primary thing to to know is that neither of us are doctors neither of us are professionals.

35:10.37

Paul

So.

35:18.34

Paul

Oh. Correct.

35:25.26

christophknoll

And the field anything that we say here is purely for research purposes and what you do with this information is purely up to you. We have no connection or motivation in telling you this information? Um, and basically.

35:40.40

Paul

Yes I want to add I Also want to add that a lot of what we talk about too here. Um a lot of the information there. There's when it comes to so a couple things I want to preface a lot of this by to me arguably most sarms I would still consider you natural after taking it.

35:43.91

christophknoll

Yeah.

35:58.64

Paul

Especially if it does alter your testosterone permanently some do so there's a couple I wouldn't consider you 100 % natural afterwards something like mk 6 seven seven which we will talk about I would consider you natural afterwards just because it doesn't it's technically technically not a sarm. Essentially so like the the actual definition of a sarm is technically not a sarm ibutammaren or m k 6 seven seven l u m two zero one. What do you want to call it mk 6 7 7 or ibuummarin are the main main ways to call it at least here in the us I don't know what it's called anywhere else and I don't know the readily availability the're ready. Availability of these peptides elsewhere in the us we have generally much more lax laws about stuff like this not in comparison to other countries something like Mexico South South America a lot of those countries have. Full legality when it comes to even anabolic steroids. Um with most countries that are based in North America not in Latin America so like I'm talking about like the us and Canada and a lot of Eu countries. Ah they crack down harder on um, under the table of supplements like this the way it works in the us. Gray area and the gray area is that you can buy these from what is called um essentially for research purposes. So when you buy them from and ah a company that sells stuff like this peptides. Um sarms. Whatever you want to call it. Ah.

37:31.24

Paul

You buy it under the umbrella of I'm buying this for research purposes. Ah, that's ah, that's how you can get past the the legal barrier in the eu other countries I don't know how it works I can't say that you can necessarily buy this stuff recently I did buy some peptides for my pct not sarms. But they're peptides and I was able to buy them under the guides under the guise of research purposes. So we wanna preface that as well as a lot of the information we present today that we've read about there have been some studies. Um one a lot of these studies have very small sample sizes.

37:55.59

christophknoll

Yeah.

38:08.40

Paul

Not really something you can. You should really judge off the greater population of how people will react to it as well as a lot of stuff that we read about as well is also anecdotal I'm in a couple different forums online for for anabolics. So I read a lot about what how other people react to it. Granted i. Personally trust those and anecdotal responses more because the number of anecdotal responses I can gather through these forums is usually more than these sample sizes of these studies are actually so for instance, 1 of the sample sizes I read about was 24 overall people 12 on. The actual sarm 12 people on the placebo where in the forum I could read more than 24 people who've taken it and have told their experience with it. So that's why I trust that in a sense more than the studies. So I do want to preface all of that there. Um, so don't necessarily take what we say. As fact.

38:53.16

christophknoll

Yeah.

39:04.64

Paul

Um, simply just stating. This is what we've read this is what we've seen this is in this case, it's not about experience because I don't really have experience with too much sarms. Um is is more about what we've read and then also the problem with sarms too is that a lot of this is very new to the market I really think MK 6 seven seven came around like.

39:24.13

christophknoll

Yeah.

39:24.40

Paul

2017 I'm pretty sure it's invented in 2017. It's very new so in the grand scheme of things like a lot of the anabolic steroids people take besides like trend have been around since like the 60 s and seventy s so like this this the the side effect profile. There's been way more studies done. There's way more understanding of what this does and also on top of that thousands of people have used steroids over the years sarms is extremely new to the market. So a lot of this stuff is we don't really know the long-term effects and I think that's kind of what a lot of conversations can be about today and Mk 6 7 7 Ibuta Moran even recall it I nn um, it's just one of those so go ahead and talk about your idea of what we were talking about the other day um of what you might be doing.

40:11.21

christophknoll

Yeah, um, and then ah just before I get to my stuff. Um, another thing to note too is that while like Paul mentioned that he would still consider you natural, um, based on what you're taking like dependent on what like compounds you take for thisarm world. Um. The important thing to note is that any of them does break like if you are a collegiate athlete amateur athlete or professional athlete. All of these do get flagged when you do your ah your your tests. So.

40:39.81

Paul

Interesting.

40:44.50

christophknoll

That's what I was looking into as well. Not that I'm in any sports world. But if you take like again, this information is not being presented for you to utilize for your own research purposes. But if you do do your own research purposes with these please keep in mind that they do get flagged and you.

40:46.81

Paul

Move.

41:03.41

christophknoll

Do kind of break the ah the testing laws If you do that? um.

41:04.91

Paul

What did it say when it when it got flagged. What did it come up as.

41:11.98

christophknoll

Um, hold on I have it to maybe I don't have it here. Ah let me.

41:15.77

Paul

I'm curious. Um I mean um, it's probably like a false positive kind of like it might kind of like how if you eat a lot of poppy seeds. It comes up as um, as opiates I think so that's just a false positive.

41:32.97

christophknoll

Well so the big one that that um is the Lance Armstrong was taking um Lance Armstrong was on which one was a um.

41:33.27

Paul

Much.

41:44.80

Paul

He was on a ah oh my gosh it increases I don't think there was a sarm the one that really he was probably yeah there were the one that he really got caught caught for um, was to increase his red blood cell count.

41:49.21

christophknoll

He was. He was on asarm though. That's ah.

41:58.70

Paul

Um, which was ah I Always forget the name of it. It's never used in bodybuilding. That's why I forget about it. Um I didn't yeah it's E Epo That's right? Um Ereth Throw Poetin Um yeah, epo.

42:08.29

christophknoll

Yeah.

42:14.44

Paul

Epo Whatever you want to call it. That's right I didn't research this beforehand I completely forgot I didn't think about this but yeah epo that just increases your red blood cell count and helps a lot with endurance. But what sarms did he supposedly take did it ever. Did it say.

42:26.73

christophknoll

Um I don't have I'm on a different browser right now. So I don't have the information that I was looking at the other day but um, it he was you what I mean obviously there was a lot. He had a large profile of stuff that he was caught with taking. Um, yeah.

42:38.78

Paul

Yeah, actually now that I'm reading about it. Holy shit. Yeah, you're not kidding. He was taking GHTwo what the fuck.

42:43.76

christophknoll

He Yeah, he had a very large profile but there was a sarm in there as well. Um, or multiple. But yeah, so ah, like we should also say a sarm when we say that is a selective Androgen Receptor Modulator Um, and essentially what that's saying is that.

42:48.50

Paul

Okay, interest me.

42:57.64

Paul

Yeah.

43:03.39

christophknoll

When you take your androgen and it Paul you're better explaining the science stuff I can say it in bros science but you can say it in science talk.

43:14.11

Paul

Yeah, so there's when we say sarm it's kind of a wide umbrella um m k 6 7 7 I wouldn't necessarily call a sarm um, just because it doesn't bind to your ng receptors so your enginegen receptors is essentially what helps actually grow your muscles. It's it's.

43:20.95

christophknoll

Yeah.

43:31.40

Paul

That's why it's called Anabolics It's called your engineed receptors sarm. It's all this stuff is kind of interlinked which ah Blade runner in reference there interlinked? Um, so everything's interlinked and the way it works essentially is when it comes to steroids to each sarm does something different.

43:39.71

christophknoll

Philip.

43:50.49

Paul

And it targets different things in a different way the way mk 6 7 7 targets your body this so sarms was developed from my from what I've read I don't know if this is the truth for all of them but a lot of them was actually developed for performance enhancement earth. Typically for human performance enhancement a lot of steroids was created for for other animals like cattle horses stuff like that. Um trend was created for cattle for my understanding to increase their lean muscle mass so that you can get more meat out of them. So. The idea behind sarms was like hey let's create something that's ideally similar results to steroids but less side effects less dangerous to the body. Um, and you know it kind of bridges the gap between natural and not natural. Ah so that's why I say. I wouldn't in this case of of Mk 6 7 7 I wouldn't consider you I would consider you natural still because it's not affecting your testosterone necessarily? What? um, mk 6 seven seven does is is technically a growth hormone secretagog and what that does is it for a short period of time over the span of roughly 24 hours it increases your igfone which is insulin like growth factor insulin like growth factor is essentially what comes from the production of growth hormone and to even broaden the horizons there what growth hormone does you you naturally create growth growth hormone just like you naturally create testosterone and all of that. What? what.

45:25.77

Paul

Growth hormone does is different to what endgen receptors do and to different different to what hyper hypertrophy is so the understanding of what hypertrophy is is usually backward from what most people think people think that hypertrophy is typically the building of muscle mass technically. They're not necessarily wrong. It increases the overall size. So therefore you think you're building muscle really what you're actually doing with hypertrophy is you're actually increasing the size of your muscle cells your muscle cells are getting stronger. They're getting bigger and able to to withstand more pressure more um, stimuli. And to undergo. Um, there's a word for it. I don't know why I'm thinking I'm I'm drawing blank on it when you're when you're in the gym training. You're you actually you're damaging your you're stressing your body there you go stress you're you're increasing in your muscle size muscle cellular size in order to withstand more stress. What growth hormone does is it actually increases your overall muscle cellular count. Ah so that's why when we talk about growth hormone which I have no idea when it's a chance I'm going to take it down the road I've taken it in the past I took a bad set of it unfortunately. But what growth hormone does. When you typically take growth hormone. You take it for six months which is a long ah it sounds like a longest time for acycle. It's not because your body doesn't actually when it comes to growth hormones specifically your body doesn't actually metabolize it and actually utilize it for almost six months

46:57.52

Paul

So like let's say you start taking it january first you're not really going to see the effects of it until like July but you take it for six months straight and then you you you taper off it and then from july hypothetically from July to December you should blow up like a motherfucker because your body's now finally utilizing that egh that you took.

47:01.38

christophknoll

Yeah.

47:16.92

Paul

The first half the year so that's what Gh essentially does what igf one did is is is essentially the the result of growth growth hormone production insulin like growth factor and essentially Intel like growth factor is going to have an effect on your lean muscle mass is going to have you on. And effect on your ah your sleep architecture as well. The way you you sleep at night the way your body recovers stuff like that. So um, when you take something like mk 6 seven seven the idea is that you grow muscle mass actual muscular cells with. As little amount of body fat growth as possible. Um or visil visceral fat total but total fat mass you want to keep that down and it supposedly actually increases your rem sleep because you're increasing your igf one temporarily. So it's actually gonna increase your actual rem sleep the studies that have been done. Um, one study that was done is a small study in 14 people um with twenty five Milligrams per day at bedtime they were shown to increase their rem sleep by 20 to 50% um 20% in younger subjects and 50% in older subjects respectively. So. Had an increase in rem sleep from what they could tell off 14 people if you're ever taking a statistics class. You know 14 is not a big enough sample size. It's not we just we don't know really what's going to actually happen. Um, so with that being said, the idea behind mk Six seven seven is to increase your igfone essentially.

48:36.40

christophknoll

Correct.

48:49.78

Paul

But because of that the reason I think mk 6 seven seven from what I've read anecdotally from other people and in studies is that it fucks your insulin sensitivity. So. It's what it's really at the end of the day is going to end up doing from what I've read. Is that it makes you hungry as fuck and want to eat everything in sight and therefore you put on a lot of lean mass because you're eating a lot of food. So therefore you can train hard. You get a lot of energy. But then you put on a lot of fat and a lot of water because you're eating a lot of food. So there's pros and cons to everything and that's from what I've read mk 6 seven seven hypothetically could do do do to you whether or not that happens to everybody I'm not sure a lot of people say that you know they didn't really gain much fat at all and it was great but blah blah but from what I've read in the forms that I've been in that I'm in essentially that's what people have said. So. That's kind of my opinion on mk 6 7 7 but at the end of the day I don't necessarily consider you unnatural afterwards because it's it's a growth hormones or greatertaog. It's not technically like a sarm in my opinion. So.

49:45.36

christophknoll

Yeah.

49:56.15

christophknoll

Yeah, and ah the reason why Paul and I are talking about MK 7 7 so much right now is that um earlier this week when I told Paul that you know I'm going to be taking stuff. Um, allegedly, um.

50:09.47

Paul

True.

50:10.97

christophknoll

Well I don't even have to say allegedly because it's research purposes. Um, when I told Paul that I would be like I talked it over with my with my close circle and I would be you know, taking going on something. Um, that was the one that I led with I led with mk 7 7 so the reason why. That's the 1 in particular that we're mentioning right now. It's just because it was the one that um I had mentioned him but there are a lot of different options. Um, there are a ton of different ones. Um, there is always going to be a I'm going to call it a science math word. If you hear like when we say Mk 7 7 that's the little science math word. Um, oh sorry? Yes, but ah, then there's also the word that is not using numbers. Um ibutimorin is what? ah.

50:50.96

Paul

Um, it's ah MK 6 seven seven yeah

51:05.54

christophknoll

That would be if you don't use the numbers. Um, and then you know there's just there's a whole bunch of different ones that are also on the table that if you go to any um website that you know sells these kind of things. Um, and again always listed for research purposes. There's going to be tons of different ones that you can look at and all of them will have. And when I say the math science word. That's their compound name. So like if you are looking at it under a microscope and you see how it's like built and everything that's the scientific compound name for whatever you are looking at and then the other one is like a lot of the time The other name is just like.

51:25.75

Paul

Yeah.

51:40.57

christophknoll

Either who discovered it and who or who made it like Leganddr is um, legandr is sorry ah l ge 4 0 3 3 um and la it's just call legandr because there is a guy named Lagand who found it.

51:41.84

Paul

Yeah, yeah.

51:55.30

christophknoll

Or his name is something along the lines of it and so a lot of the times that that one exactly and so my point being is that I'm going to call it the easy to pronounce name. They're not all easy to pronounce but in comparison to a compound name. They're absolutely easy to to pronounce.

51:58.90

Paul

It's like in pharmaceuticals I guess is who created it. Yeah.

52:14.73

christophknoll

And that's just based literally on either who makes it or who found it first? Um, so we're starting with MK 6 seven seven just because um, that was the first one that I pose to him. Ah what before we started recording today I did mention how um laandre is.

52:18.70

Paul

Yeah.

52:33.61

christophknoll

Another one that I'm taking a look at as well. Um, but basically the idea is that I'm going to end the whole premise behind this is that for research purposes I'm going to hop on 1 or 2 as a starter and. I'm leaning more towards one just because this is my first time I'll put my body through anything like this. But if it's 2 that's fine by me too. Um, and then do it for a period of sixty days ah and it is important to note that when you take us arm. You still want to do a pct afterwards. Um. And you know how intense that pct is literally just dependent on you know what your test levels look like after you're done taking it your blood work if you want to do that as well. Um, like Paul was mentioning with the mk 6 7 7 insulin levels could take a hit so the. And severity of your pcd is literally just based on what it looks like there are some cases that I've read into where you don't even need to pct just based on how their body's reacted. But again, that's on a very individual anecdotal basis. This is very very new stuff. There is not a whole lot of information out there that. Not a whole lot of prolonged research put ah into it. There is information but it's not you know, prolonged research. Um so everything's taken with a grain of Salt. So I plan to do a piece a d regardless of what my levels look like just because I want to get my body back to you know.

53:54.58

Paul

Um, yeah.

54:05.52

christophknoll

A good state without being on anything. But ah, we're going to do it for a period of sixty days um and then pcd four I I mean again, pcding is dependent but I plan to do it for at least you know 3 four weeks something like that and then. Yeah, so throughout that process I'm also going to be taking a page out of Pete Rich beyond his book I'm going to do. He did a a road to £30 of muscle mass where he recorded literally everything that went down in his day from like what he ate how long he slept what he trained that day and so since it's. Again, like we mentioned for research purposes this is going to be my research quote unquote um and just provide you guys with all that information because like Paul was saying he's in different groups forums that give information and a lot of it is leaning against using this stuff. Um, and so this will just be another.

54:58.82

Paul

Are.

55:03.18

christophknoll

Broscience anecdotal research added to the mix. You guys won't be able to get you know official research stuff because it just hasn't been ah around long enough. Um, and to note as well. Paul and I don't like these people but it's not Fda -approved but at the same time we don't trust fda Fda general so take that with a grain of salt as well. But probably going to be doing that either this upcoming week or the week following and just starting sixty days from there.

55:35.52

Paul

Um, yeah, so when it comes to ah when it comes to Sarms. You can find studies out there. The beneficial studies but the the long term side effects the long running. Issues that we could potentially face with these is we don't know it's kind of like um this is weird to compare it. But it's kind of like vaping. Originally um, we didn't know we don't really know the long-term effects of vaping. Really we know those short term popcorn lung not really like a thing. It's just like.

56:07.29

Paul

Is this really actually bad for us if there's no ni nicotine in it stuff like that is kind of what was posed with vaping with sarms. It's like does this really actually affect our long-term you know, um, longevity stuff like that. We know the effects of steroids. It's been around long enough testosterone debod that Gu stuff like that. That's been around Forever Forever. Um, so essentially with sarms the the problem with sarms is that we don't know really what could happen. Um, there been and the problem with sarms too with with steroids. There's like I said earlier, there's built out side effect Profiles. We know that there there could be these issues with each thing.

56:32.88

christophknoll

Yeah, yeah.

56:45.76

Paul

And with sarms it's It's almost like so every single person experiences something different. So it's hard to say like when when saw let's say I'm talking to someone in the gym they're like oh I'm experiencing ah hair loss or something and they tell me oh I'm on.

57:05.65

Paul

You know I'm on master on test in in aroma sin I'd probably say okay, it's probably the ma on because maon is a dht. It's a dh derivative when you take more dhts. It's actually your the dh is going to bind into your hair frollicles essentially and then what's going to happen is you're going to hair your hair is going to essentially start falling out. You can buy antidh t shampoo stuff like that to help fight it and actually helps a lot but we know that something like a dht like master strong will hypothetically affect your your hair growth with something like Sarms. We don't necessarily know that just because it's not a dht derivative. it's not ah. it's not ah you know a testosterone derivative is a not ah a net. Ah alpha nine nor is's nothing like that. They're a completely separate ballgame. Um, so ah with the forms I'm in I did find um, a actually really good response from someone that actually simplified it a lot for me. So this guy I literally just found it. I've been searching a couple forms for a while over the past few days trying to find as much information as I can from anecdotal stuff and when it comes to sarms. Um mk 6 7 7 all that I was finding was really negative honestly, that's why like I'm I'm someone who thinks that. Personally what you want to do with your body stuff and anybody else is completely up to you personally I feel that if sarms is in the conversation. You should either never touch it or just move to anabolics. That's my opinion because with anabolics you.

58:38.74

Paul

Truly get actual really good results graing. You're no longer natural no matter what Anabolic Steroid you take? You're no longer natural even if you just take Dh I Argue you're no longer natural but ah with with something like steroids. We know the side effect profile. Typically you can manage the side effects very very well. Um.

58:46.34

christophknoll

Yeah.

58:57.99

Paul

And we also know the results you can get from steroids so you get really typically really good results with something like sarms. The results are up in the air and the side effects are up in the air. So that's why I'm like if you're going to do it I would say go the full way. But I also think that people shouldn't really touch steroids in the first place. On their very certain circumstances with that being said, this is one response from this guy who kind of dumbed down sarms in a very simple way I've taken in the past I have taken sarms I regret it just because I didn't know what I was doing I didn't understand.

59:27.66

christophknoll

This is this is a this is the reviewer you? Okay, okay yeah, like.

59:34.70

Paul

This is me sorry I should have clarifyed that I have taken sarms in the past. So I know a couple of them I've taken like gain drawl in the past and I've taken ostrian like andr is lg d five 12 as well as ostring is Mk 2 8 6 2 8 8 6 um so I I also take cardterin which people say as aarm I wouldn't necessarily say is asarm. Um, which carterin is um was also developed by ly gain pharmaceuticals as well as Glaxo Smith Kline in the 1990 s so. Like ah Carterin's been around for a while I don't see it as a storm I can go to store and buy it graed is kind of an underground store. They you know they're not like a g or something like that. They're not selling legal shit they just sell on the and the guysise of research but austrian not ostrian sorry carterin.

01:00:29.23

Paul

Um, really all it does is actually just helps your body utilize protein essentially as an energy source so it just for me I can just work out way harder and longer than without it. So that's why I like it. It doesn't actually affect your gains or anything like that. It just gives you more energy in the gym you have more stamin up. So with that being said, this guy. On this forum said austrian this is all dumb down. This is all just as a comparison if you know steroids you'll know the response to this. So basically austrian it's ad it's 1 of the most mild sarms comparable to novva but much milder than n of our almost purely tissue selective. So austrian is like. Really the the thing with austrian is almost like ah you only with you see results in your traps and your dels because that's where your most of your engine receptors are a very big portion of them. No matter who you are is going to be in your traps and in your dels. That's why when you start taking tests and stuff like that that improves your engine receptors your doubts start to blow the fuck up. It's just over iist. What happens? Um, with that being said, there's also S4 which is similar to wins straw but milder winsraw as a cutting agent helps you maintain muscle while you're cutting lg d five 12 which is like and draw. It's similar to d ball when we report it well because it's got low viralization. Um, so it's going to help with mass building. Um, maybe some fat and water gaining. Um mk 6 seven seven which is ibutomaren. It's a very strong oral g hcretaog this is what this guy is saying so this is what he's saying. It's just comparison. It has a super long half-life.

01:02:03.40

christophknoll

Yep.

01:02:04.97

Paul

Um, about 4 to 6 hours which is long for I gf one similar to peptides but more side effects so he's saying it's similar to other peptides which is other sarms like Lgd but you're going to have a lot more side effects with with something like ibutimeran rad 41 um, it's similar to testosterone and essentially. Um, but it can shut you down also with rad one forty is that a lot of guys have experienced a lot of hair loss. Um, and they've also experienced ah their testosterone shutting down completely. Basically afterwards it fucks up with your testosterone so rad One forty is one of those that I would consider you not natural after and. After that I also wouldn't consider you natural after arguably Ostrian just because I know when I took ausrian my test kind of shut down afterwards as well. So osrian that's kind of a hard hard 1 there s 23 is a harder version of s 4 so similar to winstraw. It's going to shut you down afterwards from what this guy's right about and y k eleven supposedly works as a myostatin inhibitor which is just going to help overall. Um if you have a myostatin deficiency you're going to build a lot of muscle. That's why kids who have a myostatin deficiency. They don't live long lives unfortunately, but they're super muscular kids. So what Mystatin does as an if it's an inhibitor is's just going to help overall muscle growth. So that's what ykeleven is going to do um carterin he did mention coterin is not really considered a a sarm but it's considered a bit anabolic um, it's a metabollic activator really metabolic activator.

01:03:38.93

Paul

Um, so it helps with metabolism lowers bad health markers. It does help actually a lot with that's a good mention. It does help a lot with your cholesterol so it helps a lot with my leddl and hdl lipids so there is that but with that being said I think in your case stuff I think. If you were to use 1 hypothetically like Andra is probably the smartest one. Ah, just because it's it's got good results especially compared to Brad 41 um from my remembrance of it I think I built a little bit off of it. Um, put on some. A little bit of weight not much but I did build some muscle I believe when I was taking it. So um, that's I think going to be your best bet. But again, um, it's completely up to you and what you end up doing is up to you. Um, where you can obviously we'll talk about it more throughout the week but I think that you're best bet most likely is Lgd and then when it comes to like any quotations like a postcycltherapy really I think just kind of tapering off is really all you need to do because it shouldn't really affect your hormones or anything like that shouldn't really affect your lipid profile too much. So I think like instead of taking other things along with it really just kind of tapering off it. And slowly just kind of winging your body off it and then you'll be good.

01:04:54.21

christophknoll

Yeah, there's ah the the pcds that I look at are all natural ones so like um, five five percent nutrition does ah they there's ah, there's is like blatant they they call it off. Um, what is it called.

01:04:59.10

Paul

Yeah.

01:05:11.96

christophknoll

Off off ah hold on.

01:05:16.18

Paul

Um, yeah, he has he has rich piona did help develop a lot of stuff for people on steroids like he has like a liver supporter. Yeah, not surprised. Yeah.

01:05:23.30

christophknoll

Off gear off gear is or post gear. That's as as blatant as it can be and then there's um, another one called Rebirth Pct which is another natural option for it Both you know relatively.

01:05:39.95

christophknoll

Cost effect. It's literally what I'm paying for this arm. Um, so that's just natural ways. That's basically just taking another natural supplement. So I'm going to do that Anyways, just to give myself you know a complete clean through not that.

01:05:42.86

Paul

Yeah.

01:05:55.73

christophknoll

Like you said if dependent on what I take. It's not really that I need one. It's more so just as preventative care just in case.

01:06:01.19

Paul

Yeah I think like I said that you just tapering off it. You'll be fine. You know if let's sit. Let's say like I don't really even remember fully what the doches just dosages were I think like gang draw was like. One milliliter or something prior to working out like an hour before working out or something. Um, but yeah I think just for you I think it'd just be like one week could do like half a milliliter and then like the next week could do like point two five milliters or like a quarter of a milliliter for the second week and then you should be good to go after that.

01:06:32.93

christophknoll

Yeah, you just ween off of it.

01:06:36.91

Paul

Yeah, you just yeah, like really old I get two week pct is probably fine. Um, honestly, that's my opinion what you do it. That's up to you but like he has a 5% I like because he also has a lever and organ support. That's supposed to help with taking anabolics because a lot of it. Especially if you taking orals is really hard on your liver. And your kidneys and all of that. So um, that can that can help there. But yeah, they ah I love 5% nutrition in general. It's one of my favorite soup supplement companies for sure for sure. Um.

01:07:05.52

christophknoll

Yeah, we've we've dorked out about them in the past.

01:07:13.40

Paul

But yeah, so I think when it comes to the sarms in general I think that from what I've read from my own experience kind of with it I think that like G draw is probably gonna be your best Bet. Um. And like I said we'll talk about it more I got some sources for you like as far as like information whatnot to show you afterwards. So we'll talk about it more. But yeah.

01:07:34.89

christophknoll

Yeah, right now. The the leaning right now is the first one being just like Andrew like I said since it's my first doing anything I'm going to keep it to I preferably want to keep it to just one compound because I don't want to. Do you know a combination on just my first I want to see how my body reacts to just taking something that it doesn't normally receive and so I think like androil is going to be the first just do that for sixty days and I know for our listeners when we've talked about cycles in the past we talk about in weeks. The reason why I'm talking about in days is.

01:07:54.59

Paul

Yeah.

01:08:10.54

christophknoll

Literally just because it's easier for me to track in days versus weeks because it it just lines up a little bit easier for me. So that's the only reason I'm referring to it like that if you want me to say it in weeks sixty days would just be you know four or five weeks so I can just say it like that if or.

01:08:29.91

Paul

Um, it's eight weeks it be sixty days with like eight weeks essentially yeah

01:08:29.97

christophknoll

Sorry, that's not right? Um, it'd be 8 yeah yeah I did I did the half. Yeah I did taff. So if you want me to say it like that. It's you know, eight weeks nine weeks something like that. Um, but I just say in in days because it's easier for me to keep track of um so. Yeah, that'll be that'll be either this upcoming week or the week following and then I might even publicize my Tiktok It's been on private just because I'm a teacher and I don't like my students having access to that. Um, but I might publicize it just so that anybody who wants to see it can see my daily you know research on this just so.

01:08:56.81

Paul

And.

01:09:06.31

christophknoll

I'm as transparent as possible. Um, because and that's also why we have these conversations here on the podcast. Um, we always get really, it's ah 1 of our biggest pet peas between the 2 of us when people try and hide information about whatever they're using um because you know. The reason ah, one of the big reasons why there's so little research is because people hide away their results and hide away their their anecdotal data and instead we counteract that by just being as transparent about everything I mean for the past couple months as paul went through his different shows like. If you listen to those podcasts you can figure out more or less exactly what he's doing and that's the transparency that we want to promote because that way it's a lot safer to it's so much safer when there's transparency about everything like when like Paul and I saying we do not recommend this for anybody this is just.

01:09:44.38

Paul

A hat.

01:09:58.84

christophknoll

The 2 of us and our goals and our mentality surrounding it so we are okay with it. We do not recommend it for other people certainly have long conversations with people you trust about this topic like Paul and I like I said I've been talking about this for damn near six months so this is not a spur of the moment. You know, like spontaneous thing this is something that has been in conversation for a while. So if you are considering it. It needs to be something that you still will want to be thinking and talking about you know half a year from now because otherwise it's just a spontaneous decision and you're being. You know a little bit rash and irresponsible. So at the end of the day like we said your own research. Best you can and long conversations with those who actually know what they're talking about.

01:10:49.98

Paul

Yeah, yeah I Just I like to be transparent with it. So Want to make sure that everybody knows kind of what's going on and whatnot and I think it's better to be transparent than to hide it personally I can't stand it when people lie about shit that they take is it can be Harmful. Um. Mentally and physically to a lot of people so something like sarms is is um, a bit safer but also we don't really know if it's safer So like that's why I say like take it with a grain of salt just because we don't really know necessarily what what is in sarms and what how it could affect us down the road. So um, yeah, steroids is is a different ballgame and that's why they they say sarms is the bridge They say it's the bridge between nonnatural and natural. It's not as readily available as something like protein or creatine or as as studied as protein creatine Glutamine nothing like that.

01:11:44.67

christophknoll

I was going to say it's it. It is just as available. It's just not as researched.

01:11:46.80

Paul

Um, it's I mean you can't like really go into a store and buy typically.

01:11:52.82

christophknoll

I Guess I guess I was going to say I guess based on where you're going like if you know the the stores supplement stores that you know you ask for the rights right word or something like that you can access it I Guess that's that yeah I understand what you mean by that. Um I think of it more like in the um, you know, hyper complex and efficiency based World. We live in where everybody just orders everything. That's where it's just as available. Um, but yeah, if you're in a walk in Sense. You're right? it's.

01:12:20.70

Paul

Yeah, yeah, that's fair. That's fair. That's fair.

01:12:27.35

christophknoll

The only only chance you get of walking in and getting it is if you know where to go and what like it's It's not like they have to hide it necessarily but it's still everything is research based like I know I can go to my previous coach and I could get if I wanted to. But I'm going to choose to order instead.

01:12:47.15

Paul

Yeah, yeah I mean the store I go to like I think has like some like pell versions of of sarmmons and stuff like that. Um, but I'm not sure the bioavailability of the pill versions versus the like liquid versions. Ah, that's something I'd have to look into more so I can't see whether or not that that's better or worse I would imagine that the liquid version is easier to digest and better has better bio Availability Um, also with sarms. Ah, for those that are listening. Ah, you don't have to pin sarms like you do steroids. You don't you don't pin like androl you just essentially drink. It.

01:13:19.98

christophknoll

You You can you can pin it.

01:13:22.68

Paul

It tastes like shit. Yeah, ah, yeah, you'll probably fuck yourself up because a lot of time they mix it with shit like vodka and stuff like that like alcohol um, depending where you get it from? Um, typically it's like ah some sort of like alcohol substance that they that they mix it with. But ah so like you could fuck up your system if you pin it. So if you just mix it with water something like that. It's going to taste like shit like I remember last time I took ostro was like I did it straight once like at 1 point it just tasted weird but then like the second time I got it. It was like straight acid I was like what the fuck was that so.

01:13:57.70

christophknoll

Yeah.

01:14:00.40

Paul

They they kind of mix it with some with some.. It's not like bad. You know it's not not like they mix it with bad shit. It's just like this as far as like so that it can binds to the actual sarm itself. The liquid can sometimes taste like shit. So I just end it. You shouldn't pin it either. So But yeah, you just drink it essentially. Which is easier for a lot of people than to pin something.

01:14:21.67

christophknoll

Yeah, and for anyone who knows my background in history I will be buying through a place that uses an oil to bind it not and not an alcohol agent to bind it. Um, but um, there's another way to ingest it like obviously we're talking about oral. They have their pill and powder versions which both in both have pros and cons. But from what my research has has produced ah powder is like the the beta version of everything like it's you're you're not getting nearly as good of a product when you get the powder version. Um. The pill version is dependent. It can be the same but it can also be more harmful unlike your your liver and kidney. But um, the liquid version that you can just ingest um orally um there's a another way to ingest it where you once you put it in your mouth. You keep it under your tongue for 3 seconds um and base because of the pores that you have in your mouth part of it gets ingested there and then you swallow the rest of it and again, that's bro science but apparently has better results. It just.

01:15:33.46

Paul

Can.

01:15:33.90

christophknoll

Keeps the shit tasting your mouth longer. So you have to be willing to deal with that. There's a there's a fancy word for it. But I can I'm blanking on it right now.

01:15:44.20

Paul

Yeah I I haven't heard anything about that personally. But I mean again, that's also like a lot of that's like ah bro science and shit like that. So who knows that that's really the truth I just think that just getting in the full amount is really what's required. So if you like 1 one way I did it was like I take like like a mouthful of water like squeeze the liquid into the droper that it comes with and then just swig and just swi more water with it so that I don't really taste it. Um, so.

01:16:00.28

christophknoll

Yep.

01:16:14.97

Paul

That's how I did it and that way I knew I got the milliliter if you mix it with the glass. Sometimes it can kind of stick to the glass or whatever like if you you might lose a little bit from that. So just be careful of that. But with that being said I mean I think it's a lot. It's it is a lot easier to take something like that that it that it is to take like you know steroids Or. Or something like that. But.

01:16:33.78

christophknoll

Yeah, yeah, you don't have to worry about buying you know your pins or anything like value. You're just down the hatch done and there's different times to take it to um I'll be kind of explaining that in my in my series as I go through the process like.

01:16:41.19

Paul

Yeah.

01:16:50.50

christophknoll

And when we were talking about MK 6 seven seven the different things that I read because it makes you so hungry. You take it like in the morning when you wake up before you eat. Um, that's not going to be the case for all of them. Um, so I'll kind of be explaining that as I go through my process.

01:17:04.90

Paul

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, well well. Ah, if you end up taking it or something like that or supposedly taking it. We'll ah we'll ah talk about it over time for sure.

01:17:12.77

christophknoll

Well, that's well, that's that that is the 1 good thing about dealing with this kind of thing. You don't have to say alleged because there's no as long as it's research because this is research. It's I don't even have to say alleged because it's it's right net right now there are no.

01:17:24.88

Paul

That's true. Yeah.

01:17:31.86

christophknoll

No laws being broken. Um, so until until the Fda decides to be a boob again. We're probably good for not saying alleged.

01:17:42.67

Paul

Yeah, yeah I think yes, yeah so when you do research on it. Um, we could talk about what your results are from it. So it'd be interesting.

01:17:49.27

christophknoll

Yeah, for sure. Absolutely all right guys so stay tuned. We'll make sure to give you links to whatever I end up posting about that as well. But until then we'll be catching youall next week at peace.

01:17:59.98

Paul

Sir All right? We'll see you guys. Yeah.


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