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  • Writer's pictureHall of Gains and Hypertrophy Podcast

HGH #63 - Anabolics While Natural?

Paul (00:01.098)

Staying natty while an anabolic is, are you still natural?

Stoph (00:04.903)

fertility over gains.

Paul (00:08.182)

For sure, for sure. I appreciate you guys listening today.

Stoph (00:10.599)

False fake news. Gains over everything.

Paul (00:14.018)

This is true. No kids, just muscles. That's all I am, just one giant muscle. Kids will fear me.

Stoph (00:17.287)


Stoph (00:21.183)

Well, so the funny thing is, the show I went to go see last night, the boss that they were fighting was called the Elder Gains.

Paul (00:28.906)

elder gains. This is perfect. That's perfect for you. That's right up your alley. You're like, I need to make one off this now.

Stoph (00:32.247)

Yeah. Well, so I'm referencing, I went to a D&D live show last night and it was all Jim focused. I was not, it was not advertised anything like that. So I was going in kind of pessimistic and then they were like, well, everything was just set up perfectly. Like there were little tadpoles called swole poles. There was.

Paul (00:56.77)

Who, like, how many people were involved in this?

Stoph (00:59.899)

It's a four-person show with one dungeon master, three people playing, and then probably about, I don't know, between a buck fifty and two hundred people in the, uh, it was, it was a small theater. Like, don't get me wrong, it was a small theater, but uh, it was pretty wild.

Paul (01:10.69)


Paul (01:15.15)

That's cool. Yeah, I don't really know much about D&D or anything along those lines, so.

Stoph (01:21.979)

But you know the gym.

Paul (01:23.95)

Oh, yeah, for sure. I can get all the references, at least all the memes. But yeah, so today's episode, I really just want to talk about the fertility side of things because it's really not spoken about. You know, we've mentioned it here and there between, you know, what anabolic does to you and the side effects and stuff like that. And

Stoph (01:27.568)


Paul (01:49.45)

what I'll be taking to help with my fertility and stuff like that. But at the end of the day, we haven't really dove deep into it and what it all means and what each thing does and the studies that show and what the anecdotal data says. Also as a disclaimer, I am sick guys. See if you guys, if it sounds like I'm stuffed up, it's because I am. I took some medicine, so hopefully that'll kick in soon. But with that being said.

Um, the plan right now for my, well, my plan really is a combination, um, of a few different supplements, really. It's like, you know, multi-vitamin as usual. Um, also taking DHEA and pregnant alone, um, which is just going to help with, uh, general fertility and just natural production of hormones. Uh, that's something you can get over the counter. It's super cheap. Um, and even then DHEA and pregnant alone, you can get separate, but also combined. So I have a combined one that hits the doses that I want. Um,

And then furthermore, the things we really want to talk about today is in clomophene, HCG and HMG and what they really even are and how they affect the human body because in clomophene, especially clomophene has been around for a little while. I don't know exactly when it started. I know that there's been a lot of studies since 2013. Let me see. Because in clomophene is an isomer off of clomid, which is

also called clomaphene. Let me see when it was created. So Clomid, I believe it was FDA approved in like 1963. Let me see. 19, so no, FDA was 1976, or so 1976, but I think it was created, Clomid was created back in 1963.

Stoph (03:31.239)

Ugh, back in the good days.

Paul (03:46.798)

believe that's what it was. Something along those lines. So basically it's the timelines all get kind of mixed up because a lot of people compare it like the invention of it versus like FDA approval of it and then also like when it was created is controversial. So long story short, it's in Clomophene itself, Clomid has been around for a very long time and there's really two stereo isomers coming from Clomid. One's called Zuclomophene and the other one's called N-Clomophene.

So, Zuclomophene is the Z-stereoisomer, where Anclomophene is the E-stereoisomer. So really, the way you break it down to Clomid is what a lot of guys use during PCT. It's what I use during PCT. Essentially, a lot of people compare in Clomophene and Clomid as the same thing, just Clomophene in Clomophene is a shorter half-life. So, where Clomid has longer half-life, but that's not necessarily the only difference there.

So really at the end of the day, what these are is selective estrogen receptor modulators. So much like the SARMs that, you know, the millions of SARMs that Stoff takes, except instead of androgen, it's estrogen. So what this does, what Clomid was really originally made for was for fertility in men and women. So it's made up of two things, the Zuclomophene and N-Clomophene.

If you want to think about it, kind of like the female side of things. So it's about a third of clomid is like the actual biological or like the DNA of it in a sense. What actually makes up clomid, it's not lives, there's no DNA, but what actually makes up clomid, about a third of it is zuclomophen. And what zuclomophen does is basically the exact opposite of what enclomophen does. It increases estrogen and suppresses testosterone. Meanwhile...

and n-chlomophen, which is about two-thirds of chlomid, increases testosterone and suppresses estrogen. So, zuclomophen, you can kind of call like the actual term for it. It's mildly estrogenic is basically what people say. So, it mildly helps with estrogen where n-chlomophen is entirely anti-estrogenic. So, if you look at it that way.

Paul (06:07.158)

you'd think why would a guy want to take this? And it's the combination of the two that really helps with testosterone production and estrogen suppression, but also in a healthy way too. You don't want to completely shut down your estrogen and also boost your testosterone too much. But what we've been able to do is isolate the N-chlomophene and the Zlomophene because all the side effects that come from chlomid within men come from the Zlomophene, right? So basically they were like, you know what, let's take the N-chlomophene completely out of chlomid.

just create the enclomaphen, 100% enclomaphen. We get rid of pretty much all the side effects and it helps men in pretty much every single way you possibly can. So there's been a lot of studies done on it. Why enclomaphen is not FDA approved? I have no idea. There's no reason it shouldn't be. There's so many things out there that are FDA approved that shouldn't be, but this should be improved, but it's not, you know.

Stoph (06:53.453)


Stoph (06:59.427)

I was gonna say, because you know, the FDA isn't really looking out for your best interests, so.

Paul (07:07.339)

They were back in the day, not today though. Back in the 50s, 60s and 70s, they did have to make a switch because especially with cigarettes and all of that, they had to ban, not really ban, but really show that there is danger. Yeah, there is danger with cigarettes and all of that. So the FDA did take a swing in the right direction back in the 60s and 70s.

Stoph (07:09.921)


Stoph (07:22.699)

Age restrict. Yeah.

Paul (07:34.17)

If you've ever seen the show Mad Men, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about first episode. I Got a we got to watch that actually I got to watch that we as in me my wife we got to watch Mad Men, but um first episode it's all about how all these cigarette companies have to remarket their product because they can no longer say that it's like Doctor approved because they're at the time they were paying for doctors to say oh, yeah, it's safe to take so they're like Oh nine out of ten doctors say it's safe to take or whatever, right? It's kind of like toothpaste bullshit, right? So

Stoph (08:00.892)


Paul (08:03.666)

Um, then they said they were sued or something happened where they basically said the FDA and the government said, you can't see that anymore because we found evidence that it is dangerous and you can't put that on your packaging anymore. So while all these other cigarette companies, you're trying to figure it out, lucky strikes, which I believe is still around today, lucky strikes went to the main character, Don Draper, and they had to remarket it. And instead of saying it's doctor approved, he said, how do you guys make it? And they said, you know, they do this and this and this and this, and then they roast it and then they, they wrap it after that. And he goes,

Got it. And he goes, is it roasting? Like, what's the process there? And then he like, they describe the roasting process and then he puts on the white board in front of them or chalkboard, whatever it was, he said, it's toasted. So it's like, they had to market it differently. And the reason I'm saying this is just because the FDA nowadays doesn't really give a shit. They allow cigarettes, but they ban other shit. It's fucking dumb. But yeah, so the studies behind in clomaphene. Here, let me actually, I'm just gonna share my screen here.

We have also swapped platforms guys, so hopefully this one's a bit better.

Stoph (09:06.983)

I was gonna say today's sharing of the screen is brought to you by Riverside.

Paul (09:12.53)

Yeah, we'll see if we'll see I got to allow for sharing on the screen. Damn it. One sec.

Stoph (09:21.107)

They're gonna steal all your passwords.

Paul (09:26.062)

Ah, jeez. Sorry, guys. All right, there we go. All right, we should be good. Oh, let me see. So it's this one. Here we go.

Stoph (09:31.215)

In other nudes, Peter Griffin is natural.

Paul (09:40.146)

All right, here we go. So, this is just one study that's been done, right? You guys can see me highlight, I think, right? Okay, cool.

Stoph (09:47.065)

It's still loading in.

Paul (09:49.896)

Alright, my screen is there.

Stoph (09:51.683)

Alright, be good. Run with it.

Paul (09:53.518)

All right. So these are just a few studies that have been done in clomophene. There's been tons of studies done. And as you guys can see, the sample size and dosages and also duration did change over time. And there's also different years that these studies were done. So in the first study, 44 people, 44 men were in it. It was single blind, phase two randomized. So basically what that means, if you don't understand statistics,

Basically what this means is that one side of the equation, one side of the study is blind. And typically what that would be is the person, the people the guy's taking in clomophene are most likely the guys who are blind to what they're taking. So they don't know what they're taking. And the dosage is here, 6.25 milligrams, 12.5 and 25 milligrams of enclomophene. I'm assuming per day. I have to read more in it, but.

Basically, with the guys who had 25 milligrams of enchlomophen, the average testosterone was 604 nanograms per deciliter plus or minus 160, based off probably just standard deviations. So really, the average is between, we'll just say like 450 and about 750 roughly. But then you have men on testosterone, average T is 500 nanograms per deciliter plus or minus 278.

So you have anywhere from 250 to 750. So on average, based off this, you know, it's a small sample size, but based off the sample size, and clomaphene has shown that the average testosterone in these men was higher on average than men on testosterone. And then all the doses in, of guys who were taking clomaphene, their LH increased. And then in men treated with tea had lowered LH. So what this means,

So the way in clomophene works is it doesn't directly increase your testosterone or lower your estrogen directly. It affects your LH and FSH, which is luteinizing hormone. Really primarily the luteinizing hormone. So LH in this case, if you want to think about it this way, it's kind of like, I think your LH is kind of like your, in a way, your fertility is kind of like your pituitary gland in a sense. So if you're increasing your LH, typically you're also increasing your testosterone and also lowering your estrogen.

Paul (12:16.638)

So it directly attaches to these luteinizing hormones in order to do that. So incomaphing directly increased LH, which typically means that their fertility increased and guys on testosterone had their LH lowered because testosterone, when you take synthetic or endogenous testosterone, what this does is it directly shuts off your pituitary gland, which literally shuts off your body's ability to shut.

to produce testosterone because your body's like, hey, I'm getting it from the outside. I no longer need to create it. So now because they see lowered LH and then versus increased LH, you can honestly argue that in this study, encolmophene seems superior than testosterone. Granted, also keep in mind that testosterone when taken for TRT,

is meant to just maintain levels as long as possible, right? And it's very easy to take, it's not harming the body. Now there isn't Clomophene really, but it's a very good supplement, especially if you're not planning to have kids. If you're not planning to have kids or have already had your kids and you're good to go on that, testosterone most likely is the way to go. It's easier to apply, it stays in your system a lot longer, and Clomophene has a very short half life, so you have to keep consistently taking it. With that being said, mm-hmm.

Stoph (13:37.399)

And with that study though, it doesn't say how much testosterone these guys are taking.

Paul (13:45.106)

It does not. I want to say, so it's, there is this right here. So it does reference the actual study. So I can dive more into it. Let me see Google scholar. Let me see if it'll show us.

Paul (14:05.23)

25 milligrams of clomophene a day.

Paul (14:14.686)

Yeah, it's not telling me. Endroxyl, which is a name brand, basically of enchromophen. Transdermal testosterone. Let's see. Yeah. It doesn't say what the dosage was of testosterone.

Stoph (14:31.943)

So that could, I mean, not at all discrediting the study, but I feel like you'd have to include that to get full reliability, you know?

Paul (14:42.487)

Yeah. Oh, there it is. Five grams. Five grams of transdermal testosterone. So what that equals to, I'm not too sure because you know, you don't, I mean, because transdermal testosterone, Indragel, what this is, is a topical solution, kind of like a lotion. So they would put five grams of it on their skin and it gets dissolved. So I would assume that five grams of.

Stoph (15:05.138)


Paul (15:09.65)

Androgel is probably equivalent to about 25 milligrams of androxyl. But 25 milligrams a day, if they're doing a day, let me see. Yeah, on 24 hour, yeah, so it's a day, it's every day they're taking this. 25 milligrams a day is considered high. 12 and a half is considered like, probably like the average. And then 6.25 is considered like pretty low. 6.25 per day is like a.

That's what you take if you're a younger guy and you just kind of want to slightly increase your testosterone a little bit, maybe a little bit of your LH, you don't want to take too much. So you can take like 12 and a half every other day or 6.25 every day. But these are all per day. So 25 milligrams is considered high, but that's where you want it to be for older men. So now we know. And then the next two comparisons don't directly have actual measurements of testosterone, but...

They said both testosterone increased in clomophene and testosterone groups. FSH and LH increased with in clomophene. And then also sperm counts remain stable with in clomophene. So this is a double blind with a placebo. So basically what this means is neither the people giving them the dosages nor the people taking the dosages know what's going on. So there's really...

as little amount of bias there as possible because here you could argue like, oh, you know, they could have given more guys 25 and therefore like increase the odds or something. But like here you can't, you can't like dictate who gets what because you, nobody knows, right? Only the people administering the test, they give, you know, the judge, the people administering it a random dose and the people who are taking it don't know what they're taking. So neither of them know which one's which.

Stoph (16:47.921)


Paul (17:02.503)

And then the next one, phase three, randomized, double blind as well. This is a much larger sample size of 265 and also a longer duration of four months. So clomophene increased testosterone, FSH and LH to normal levels. I'm assuming what this also means is that the people who were taking it also had like low testosterone and low FSH and LH and high estrogen. That's why they need to take this. So.

Patients on enchlomifene maintain sperm counts, patients on T experienced serum T increases, but sperm counts were not preserved. So basically it just means that the testosterone increased, but their sperm counts were diminished, which is exactly what's expected to happen with testosterone. So this is what enchlomifene does in comparison to testosterone. And a lot of you guys listening might know enchlomifene from different influencers taking it as like a way of getting around anabolics.

but still staying in quotations "natural", right? Because they're like, oh, it's not anabolic. It just lowers your estrogen and therefore increases your testosterone. But at the same time, if someone on TRT could theoretically take in enclomifene and increase their testosterone and sperm production and FSH and LH and all of that, I wouldn't really consider that natural anymore because you're in a way artificially doing that. Your body wouldn't have done that naturally. If you're taking something like...

Stoph (18:21.67)


Paul (18:23.082)

DHEA or Pregnenolone, which is over the counter, just like supplement. Sure. I can consider that it's still natural, but like in enclomifene, you can't just get over the counter. You know, it's not approved for, um, human use. So it's, you know, it's a drug that's technically not on the market. And at the same time, you're artificially increasing all of this and decreasing your estrogen. So I wouldn't really necessarily say that you're natural at that point. Um,

So this is just a few studies that I wanted to show you guys to kind of back up like what I'm talking about here with enchromophen. But yeah, so that's enchromophen for you. Selective estrogen receptor modulator. Half-life is pretty short. So typically a lot of TRT doctors, urologists, whatever the case may be, you know, enchromophen, not enchromophen, geez, endocrinologists, urologists, all that, who would prescribe some sort of TRT. They.

prefer in Clomophene to over Clomid because of the shorter half-life. So it lowers your estrogen, increases your testosterone in a quicker sense than Clomid does. So you get the benefits of both worlds in a faster pace. So that's why they prefer it. And this is something that doctors online have talked about as far as their preference goes. So that's in Clomophene for you. Any questions, raise your hand.

Stoph (19:42.211)

And is that is that going to pop up on? Obviously, like in natural bodybuilding, it's a tested league. So does this kind of stuff pop up?

Paul (19:52.854)

That's a great question actually. Let me check. Let me see what A and BF test for.

Stoph (20:00.879)

Not that it's on my radar, but I'm just asking as a general question.

Paul (20:04.978)

Yeah, let me see what they test for. Because they might not test. So it's the, it's part of the WADA prohibited substance list. So it's the World Anti-Doping Agency. Let me see. Let me look up WADA's list. So A&BF is just one of the bigger ones. One of the bigger natural bodybuilding leads out there. Let me see what they've...

Paul (20:38.309)

Let me see. It's possibly.

Paul (20:47.922)

Yep. Well, clomophene will pop. So in clomophene probably will too, because and because clomophene on WADA's website,, S4 hormone and metabolic modulators. Clomophene is one of the ones, it's anti-estrogenic substances, anti-estrogens and selective estrogen receptor modulators, including but not limited to.

one of them is in clomophene or clomophene I mean not in clomophene. But yeah there's also AIs too, rheumatase inhibitors so you can't take

Paul (21:31.634)

I'm sure you can't take Aromadex or Aromasin. It doesn't name them specifically, but I'm sure that the markers that they're looking for are within Aromadex and Aromasin. Yeah, it doesn't, anything myostatin binding, myostatin or precursor neutralizing, stuff like that. So yeah, most likely, enchlamophene will most, like I said, most likely pop.

So like, let me see, obviously anabolic is a lot longer. Yeah, I don't see an end-chlamophene here. Let's see. I'm going to scroll in a few just to see if I can find it. Okay, so if you take.

Paul (22:18.536)


Paul (22:21.614)

Yeah, so one of the things that they also measure for is your FSH and LH levels. And obviously taking something like encomphene is going to increase those. So it's a good chance that, you know, they'll see that pretty easily. Yeah. So I wouldn't.

Stoph (22:38.555)

What do you mean, bro? I have 900 free tests. That's natural.

Paul (22:43.81)

900, geez dude, imagine. 900 free tests. Stimulants, what are stimulants that are banned?

Stoph (22:45.7)


Paul (22:56.734)

I don't see Chlormid. Not Chlormid. Ah, fucking, wait, wait. What was the one, why am I drawing a blank on it? The one that I took. Oh man. I'm drawing a blank on it.

Stoph (23:10.496)

That list is pretty long.

Paul (23:13.078)

You can't take any amphetamines or cocaine. So there's that. You guys know. Yeah, no, it was the, I don't know why the hell I'm forgetting it. Ephedrine, you can't take Ephedrine or epinephrine, which is adrenaline. You can't take an EpiPen prior to competing. Sorry, guys.

Stoph (23:22.019)

Yeah, can't do drugs.

Stoph (23:34.023)

Ha ha.

Stoph (23:37.48)

Is that part of a cycle? Your coach texts you, yeah, you're gonna need 20 milligrams of this, 10 milligrams of that, one EpiPen per day. Like.

Paul (23:47.19)

One EpiPen for your workout. Just go in there just throwing weights at the mirror. Fuck you. Fuck you.

Stoph (23:53.967)

How high stim is your pre-workout? Mine's an EpiPen.

Paul (23:59.114)

pure adrenaline, pure epinephrine. But yes, that's inclomaphen for you. Obviously, there's a lot more science behind it, and really a lot of the studies just show that it increases your testosterone and lowers your estrogen. It is a great tool for TRT, especially if you're using it in conjunction with testosterone, or even just on its own, really. And it's also a great tool for PCT as well.

We did consider taking enchlomophene, I think, from a PCT, but decided to go chlomid because it's a bit more intense. It is a longer half-life, but with enchlomophene, we're taking it now to help with my overall fertility, as well. So I look at the studies, and there's one study I was reading. It said that for the guys that were...

So the guys that they were measuring, I think it was only like 40 guys, it wasn't that many. They averaged like 200 nanograms per deciliter of testosterone, so they clearly needed to be on TRT because they were under what's considered healthy. Taken in clomaphene after three months and after six months of taking clomaphene is about the same roughly the results, but they're all about 700-ish nanograms per deciliter on average.

of testosterone. This is total testosterone I'm talking about, not free. So total testosterone and then also their sperm count was measured as well. So sperm count in healthy men is right around 20 million sperm cells per milliliter, right? So if you're under 20 million, that's considered unhealthy. So all these guys that study, considering the testosterone was low, their sperm count was also low as well. So they were under 20 million. But

the results of the studies between three months and six months all fell within a range of about 75 million to 200, like 25 million or something like that. It was in that ballpark. So they went from being considered unhealthy to being at minimum like four times a healthy amount while taking in clomaphene. You know, this isn't like, you know, you're not taking like something that's anabolic or anything like that. This isn't like actually harming your body. It just helps your body produce more LH and FSH and therefore...

Stoph (26:05.127)


Paul (26:17.834)

Your sperm count is drastically improved. So that was pretty interesting to see. And then also there's also HCG and HMG, which I'm taking as well. So HCG and HMG are what more people know as far as PCT goes and fertility goes. So HCG is human chorionic gonadotropin.

Paul (26:48.81)

a it's a PCT supplement or a, you know, uh, it really just helps with, uh, your gonadotropin levels and fighting that really ultimately. So ECG for me, what this is going to do is directly affect your LH, um, and increase that and therefore increase your fertility. So a lot of guys on cycle take ECG, um, in order to stay for a while bodybuilding.

So this is HCG and HMG is what I've dove a lot more into because in clomophene is, there's a lot more studies done because there's also clomid. You can kind of look at clomid studies and be like, okay, what do these look like? Because clomophene could theoretically be this, if anything more potent actually. So with HCG and HMG, there's a lot of studies done, but also the studies are done in a way where,

Stoph (27:15.868)


Paul (27:44.886)

we're talking, so HCG and HMG are primarily made for females. And here's a great example of what HCG and HMG is. Do you know what a pregnancy test measures? Their HCG levels directly. So your HCG levels within a female body is what's going to tell them whether or not they're pregnant. So your HCG levels, I want to say normal is like 50 to like 85 or something like that. I think it's...

Nanograms, I forget the measurement exactly. I was just reading a pamphlet about it, the other, well not really pamphlet, it's just an example of like what's considered healthy HCG levels. Oh yeah, million IUs, so it wasn't nanograms, it was MIU, which I think is, let me see, MIU, let me see, unit.

Yes, milli international units. So it's a milli international unit is 1000th of an international unit. So an IU is used in so many different, so many different things. And IU is just one way of measuring things. So, you know, one IU.

Stoph (29:01.077)

I thought you were gonna say an IU is used in so many rich peyote videos.

Paul (29:07.99)

Probably. I mean, they use it in GH. You say like how many IUs you take a day, but it's like IU is a pretty, I wouldn't really call it like universal because it's like one dose of HCG could be like 500 IUs, but then you take like four IUs of GH, you know, like growth hormone. It's like, I would say that it's not exactly the same measurement, you know? So it's like when you're talking about HCG.

Stoph (29:12.579)

Well, yeah.

Paul (29:37.458)

In particular, I use just one way of measuring it because you're not measuring like nanograms or anything like that. So it's just it's like I would say the I you measurement only pertains to that particular thing that you're talking about. I could be completely wrong, but that's my understanding of it, because I use could measure really anything. But the I you term is used interchangeably. So it's like what is it mutually exclusive? I forget what that term is, where it's like it only applies to that one thing.

Um, it's exclusive. I use exclusive to each item. I don't know what the term is. There's a term for it. Um, yeah, anyways, the point is, um, I want to say it was like, um, 50 to like 85. I, um, Millie I use of. Per milliliter of HCG is like what's considered healthy. And when you initially get pregnant, it's actually low. It's like, it drops down to like between 15 in like 35 or 45 or something like that. So when you're.

Stoph (30:13.948)

You're good.

Paul (30:36.386)

taking a pregnancy test within a few weeks, that's why they say you're supposed to do it like a certain amount of weeks after, or a certain amount of days after you missed your period, because that's when your ACG is at the levels that the pregnancy test should be measuring, because it's measuring for lower ACG. So, that's what a pregnancy test does. Where in men, ACG, when you take ACG, which is a naturally occurring hormone, what ACG does is increases your LH, and therefore increases your fertility and your sperm count. So,

Stoph (30:47.218)


Paul (31:06.038)

A lot of the anecdotal side of things. So the TRT like doctor endocrinology side of things, when it comes to ACG, they have a few different ideas behind how much you should take. Really no more than like 500 IUs a day, which all this stuff is like, ACG and HMG specifically are very expensive. Keep that in mind guys. Like in the world of bodybuilding, ACG and HMG is very expensive. In the grand scheme of things, it's like,

compare it it's expensive that's what I'm saying so it's like you're not gonna spend a ton of money like bodybuilders don't spend a ton of money on it because yeah so it's like when you're using it during PCT like I bought I think it was let me think I'm trying to think I think it was three vials and that's like 120 bucks or like 130 bucks online or something like that so it's like this is expensive for four weeks but you're only taking it for four weeks

Stoph (31:42.329)

It's accumulation.

Stoph (32:03.258)


Paul (32:03.338)

You know, it's like I'm done after that. I'm not taking it anymore. Um, same with the HMG. HMG is even more. And I took, I bought even more of it. So it was like 250 bucks or something for like four weeks. So it was like, shit, this is a lot for, for one month. But in the grand scheme of things, it's less than everything else. Um, I just mentioned that because. ACG and HMG is what holds back a lot of guys from getting fertile while bodybuilding because of how expensive it is and what your dosages should be. It's not like.

You can buy the shit in bulk from China or anything like that. You know, you have to buy it through really ideally reputable sources. It is approved for online purchase, unlike anabolic steroids. So you can get it online and it's not approved for human consumption. So everything I'm talking about today, do not do guys. This is this is what I'm talking about. I'm doing this is a disclaimer. We are not doctors. I'm just telling you guys what the data shows and what I'm doing.

Stoph (32:48.047)

We are not doctors.

Stoph (32:53.732)

We still need to do that Andrew Tate disclaimer.

Paul (32:57.638)

Oh, I know where you said we're gonna start doing that. Yeah. What was it again? We gotta find it. Cause I think.

Stoph (33:01.931)

Everything, everything Paul says is a lie.

Paul (33:05.982)

Yeah, it was something like, it was something like, everything that Andrew Tate says, it was like a disclaimer that they were reading out and it was in the video, YouTube video.

Stoph (33:19.432)

Tristan's like, this is going to get me sent back to jail.

Paul (33:24.19)

Yeah, and it was something about like, he's like, no, this is the perfect, it's a perfect disclaimer. It was like, everything Andrew Tate says is a lie and therefore should never be taken seriously and only taken in jest. He has been arrested by the Romanian government for human trafficking, but found in his, like, it was like some bullshit like that. It was like three paragraphs long.

Stoph (33:44.776)


Stoph (33:48.315)


Paul (33:52.246)

I got to find it, we got to say it, it's adapted to us. But basically, all I'm trying to say is everything I'm saying is just reading studies. You guys can interpret it the way you guys wanted to interpret it. I'm not telling you what to do. I'm not a doctor, nothing like that. I'm just telling you what the studies show, what I've done, what I've seen anecdotally. Guys say that they're doing so take it all with a grain of salt. With that being said, ACG in the world of bodybuilding. When you're on cycle...

This is something that's relatively new to bodybuilding actually, ACG on cycle. It's been talked about for the past couple of years, but a couple of years in bodybuilding is nothing, you know, that's, that's the difference of two Olympias that Chris is Chris Bumstead has been winning five, he's won five in a row. So I mean, it's, um, you know, two Olympias is really not that much. Um, so that's, that's like from, from how far back I could see people talking about ACG during cycle. That's like the furthest I can go back for like a popular YouTube video. There are further.

talks prior to that, like forums especially, like 10, 12 years ago, but like the popularity side of things on YouTube especially have talked about ACG the past few years really. So ACG while on cycle, a lot of guys, even if you're taking a shit ton of anabolics, they'll take like 500 IUs maybe every other day or every three days. So when we were talking to ACG, the half-life within, so when I say half-life in case you guys don't know.

What half-life means is how long it takes for 50% of whatever's left in your body to dissipate. So if the half-life is one day, after one day you have 50% left. After another day you have 25%. After another day is 12.5%. So every day you lose half of it because it's kind of like a downward, it's a upward slope of loss if you wanna, no.

Stoph (35:35.671)

All the, uh, all the chemistry nerds rise up.

Paul (35:39.91)

Yeah, basically, it's a it's a slope that evens out. So it's like at first you lose a lot, but then it slowly evens out and evens out and evens out and then eventually it's out of your system. But so that's what a half life is that's just what that means. So when you say half life, ideally in the return in the world of bodybuilding, you want to take something prior to like really hitting that half life or really right at hitting that half life. So for instance, let's say like testosterone in the half life, I want to say it's like four days.

Let me see.

Paul (36:14.118)

Let me just look that up just to be sure I'm saying exactly. Yeah, four and a half days. So the half life of testosterone and endothelium is four and a half days. So that's why you take testosterone and endothelium like twice a week or something like that. You wanna take it prior to the half life really hitting because then your levels are gonna be like this if you're not. There's also longer half lives too. Like there's acetate, like trend-alone acetate is something people talk about a lot. Trend-alone acetate is like a one day half life. Like it's super fast. That's where you take trend like every other day or like three times a week, something like that. HCG is similar.

Stoph (36:24.082)


Paul (36:43.618)

You want to take it like every two days or every three days. Same with the HMG. The half-life is like a day or a day and a half, something like that. So when bodybuilders are taking HCG, typically they talk, with any stuff when they talk in terms of like per week, that's why we say like anything more than a gram per week is considered a lot, right? So even then, depending on what you're taking, like 500 milligrams of test is a solid amount. Even though it's half a gram, that's still a solid amount of test. So with HCG...

Typically, guys are around a thousand IUs a week, which really is actually very cheap. But what HCG will do, and the only goal here is to maintain your LH levels. And by doing that, you're going to be maintaining your fertility ultimately. So this is a very sensitive subject for a lot of bodybuilders because a lot of bodybuilders don't realize until it's too late. And I know guys, I've talked to guys before where they say, you know, I'm, you know, X age and...

I don't have a girlfriend, I don't have kids. So really at this point, I've just kind of dedicated my life to bodybuilding. And to me that's, you can hear it in their voice when they say that, because that's a realization that they've had to come to grips with. Because you've been on testosterone alone, if you've been on it, especially androgenic like super physiological levels long enough, you're never gonna produce sperm ever again, no matter what you do.

In terms of TRT, absolutely you could, for sure. You know, there's guys who take TRT for 15 years and they can produce sperm again. There's a doctor on YouTube I was watching, he's an endocrinologist, and he said that he had a 63 year old patient who was on TRT for a very, very long time. They took him off TRT, put him on ACG. I think it was 12 weeks or something like that. Later, he got his wife pregnant with twins.

So at 63, let alone off TRT, like that's what ACG can do to you. Like this is all ACG does for men. So it's possible. But when we're talking about such high amounts to where you're basically your pituitary gland and the testosterone producing side of your prostate just literally just shrivel up and die. There's guys, numerous guys that can lift off the top of my head that I won't say just for their sake.

Paul (39:08.678)

They probably aren't even listening, but just for the sake that you guys, in case you guys follow them or anything like that, um, and look up to them that, you know, you guys, it doesn't change your opinion of them, but there's guys that I know that, um, will never have kids because of their anabolic usage. And that's something that they have to come to terms with. And, um, we've talked about, I mentioned it, I think last week too, actually, um, where I was like, yeah, most weeks, but like Sam Sulek, I think is what I mentioned last week where I was like.

Stoph (39:32.084)

Most weeks.

Paul (39:37.642)

Yeah, you can look up to Sam Sulek, but at the same time, like, if he keeps going the way he's going, I almost guarantee you he's not going to have kids. And that's something that nobody talks about, you know, they're all like, Oh my gosh, this guy looks crazy. This guy's insane. Like, I would be in a much different place right now. We weren't trying to have kids, you know, we would have done a PCT probably not even done a PCT. I probably would have been on TRT for a couple weeks after my last show, or after tapering off been on TRT for like a month or something. And then right now we'd be in a blast.

the same weight and twice the size of muscle that I am now. But because we're trying for kids, I am losing fat, which is good, but you have to put bodybuilding aside in order to have kids typically. But here's the thing, this is where HCG comes in, and this is how guys are able to have kids while also on cycle. And I think this is also something that I wanna go, wanna keep doing going forward, is I wanna take HCG on cycle and then also.

The plan too is every three months take PCT levels of HCG. So for me, PCT levels of HCG was every three days taking 667 IUs. So in a vial, I get 5,000 IUs. So what I did in that was I put 0.6 milliliters of backwater, which is basically antibacterial water. It's like as clean as it gets. It's $10 for like this much backwater.

So you don't just drink backwater. This is like, it's as clean as it gets. This is what you'd use like in like, like doctor's offices and shit like that. This is what you'd use to like administer vaccines and shit. You'd use backwater. So it's BAC water. So about 6.6 milliliters of backwater and a point mill, two milliliters of, you know, HCG every three days. So it's about one third of the vial every three days. It's a pretty high dose, pretty high dose there.

you're looking at a little over 500 IUs per day, technically if you look at it that way. And the max most endocrinologists will talk about for ACG is about 500 IUs per day. But 500 IUs per day, if you can afford it, will drastically improve your chances of having a kid, no matter what you're doing. I mean, unless you're taking antibiotics for a big set period of time, but if you're able to have kids and you're able to produce sperm, take a 500 IUs of ACG and you take that for a few months.

Paul (42:01.034)

almost guarantee you're going to get pregnant. Probably regardless if they're on birth control or not. I don't know about IUDs because IUDs are very like, they're very, very good at preventing pregnancies. But if your girlfriend, wife, whatever the case may be, one night stand, whatever, if they're just taking like actual pregnancy, you know, birth control pills, I'm sorry, birth control pills, most likely you can get right past that with ATG with how much sperm your cells, your body's going to be producing. So 500 IUs.

per day is considered kind of like the max Which is a lot, you know, it's a lot that you're taking but it's not gonna like harm your body in the long term Because theoretically especially with ATG and HMG with me right now We're only taking this until we're pregnant and then I'm gonna take a smaller dose and a smaller dose for bodybuilders on cycles like With anecdotal a lot of forums a lot of bro science is considered bro science its anecdotal information from different forums a

They were taking anywhere from 500 IUs a week to about 1,000 IUs per week. I think from what I've seen and from the studies that I've seen and read, 1,000 IUs per week is about the minimum you should be taking of HEG at all. So that would be like 500 IUs twice a week or you could do like 250 IUs or 300 IUs, like 300 IUs maybe every two days or something like that. However you wanted to break it up so you can hit about 1,000 IUs a week.

It's hard because there's 70s in a week, it's not an even number. So you got to try to figure it out that way. Ideally you want to take ETCG every other day or every three days in the terms of what we're talking about today. Don't actually do it guys. I'm just saying like metaphorically speaking, this is what you want to do. Yes, everything's a lie. None of this is true. These are all bullshit studies and anecdotal information. So a thousand IUs per week is roughly what a lot of bodybuilders take and they'll talk about how they took it for...

Stoph (43:41.891)

Everything Paul says is a lie.

Paul (43:55.81)

you know, three months and then their girlfriends are pregnant while they're on cycle. And I know guys who've gotten pregnant, um, gotten their girls pregnant during cut during preps, you know, like where they're taking.

Stoph (44:04.787)

Well, didn't uh, didn't Lunsford get his girlfriend pregnant like mid-Olympia prep?

Paul (44:08.705)


Um, well that was Seabum. I think Seabum got his, you know, Courtney pregnant, I think, right around the time he was starting prep for the Olympia. So he would have been like peak bulk or like start of prep. Um, as far as that goes, I'm not sure, because Seabum's kind of at the place now where he doesn't need to take a ton of gear, and he also talks about how he doesn't touch trend. So I don't know exactly what he could have theoretically been taking at the time. I know he has gone into like what he takes for offseason, which I think is like 500m because

Stoph (44:19.558)


Paul (44:40.31)

500 milligrams of Tess and like a few hundred milligrams of primo I think is what he was taking or maybe was EQ I forget which one it was um It might have been EQ I think I think Jay Cutler talked about EQ too because Jay Cutler is a big advocate for EQ which is equipoise Equipoise is a great bulking agent for me. I put on a ton of water with EQ so I can't really my body doesn't agree with it but Primos also very expensive primo so fucking expensive You go into any guy Who sells steroids

Like a lot of guys who sell steroids, they'll have like deals going on where it's like, you know, you buy X amount of dollars, it's free shipping or you get a free vial of either this or this. All myasauruses will, almost all of them if they ever have a deal to say excludes Premo because of how expensive Premo is. It's like double the cost of testosterone. So anyways, the point is, HCG drastically improves your fertility.

Stoph (45:24.556)

Hm hm.

Paul (45:36.066)

just by manipulating your LH levels. Increase your LH levels, you get more sperm. So this is something that a lot of bodybuilders take. It's been shown to work time and time again. And I think that if you are a bodybuilder who is taking anabolic steroids and you plan on having kids one day, I wish I'd known this information sooner because we probably would have been pregnant by now and I probably would have been back on cycle and back to bodybuilding, but you live and you learn.

I think that if you're taking ECG pretty much from the get-go, I think you'll be in a much better place. And a lot of guys go, oh, well, if you take ECG during cycle, what happens during PCT? All you got to do is come off ECG for literally a week and then increase the dosage to your PCT dose. So if I was taking the thousand I use a week, come off it for a week and then during my PCT, do the 1667 every three days and boom, it's your body's treating it like PCT. That's all you got to do.

It's very simple in that sense. HCG is also much more readily available. HCG has been around a lot longer than HMG has been around as well. But also, HCG is something that guys take to say that they're still natural. So it's kind of taken a lot of time in conjunction with N-chlomophene. There's some, I think, I think Alex Eubanks actually was one of them who said he was taking N-chlomophene and HCG and is still considered natural, which is fucking false.

Stoph (47:03.783)

Uh oh.

Paul (47:04.03)

Anybody who takes anclomophene and HCG, insane, they're natural, is fucking wrong. You're not natural.

Stoph (47:08.971)

Well, you banks his video that was like the I've got 600 of uh, I think he said free test something like that

Paul (47:18.178)

Did he say free test? Okay, if he said free test, then clearly he's taking shit. If he said total test, I could believe it. 600 natural is pretty doable. That's very, very common. 600 free test or 600 test total test is right in the healthy range. Healthy range is like 350 to 950. So that's a right smack dab in the middle. But if it's 600 free test, he's out of his fucking mind. My like heaviest, like one of my heaviest cycles.

Stoph (47:19.586)

I don't remember, but his

Stoph (47:28.121)


Paul (47:48.006)

I've done, I think it was during prep. I think, I think it was during prep and I got my, I was just a physical, we just got some labs done. And my free test was at, I think it was 700 nanograms per deciliter and natural was like 60, 70 or so, something like that. So like.

Stoph (48:00.445)


Stoph (48:05.48)

The doctor just kind of looks at you from over the papers, just kind of looks back down.

Paul (48:12.63)

They had to give me a call. They were like, hey, are you taking anything separate? And they're like, if you are, you should come off it because it's at an unhealthy level. And I was like, okay, click. Like you guys did your job, thank you. You did what you're legally supposed to do. You did like, mog on them. And he's like, we need you to come into the office. What do you want? He's doing his mog.

Stoph (48:16.819)


Stoph (48:27.408)


Stoph (48:31.24)

Hahaha. Yeah.

Stoph (48:38.838)

It's like the transcribing of Plato ending debates by just flexing on people.

Paul (48:48.41)

Isn't that what he supposedly actually did or something? Like he like did something like that, like did a pose or like stood over them.

Stoph (48:49.879)

Yeah. To end a debate, yeah, to end a debate, he would just flex on people.

Paul (48:58.142)

I mean there wasn't like flexing like bodybuilding back then but I'm sure he just did like a like a pose. Front lats bed followed by a perfect side transition or something like that. I modeled this up Jay Cutler. Who is that? You'll see in hundreds of years. Um but yeah so ACG does drastically help all of that. But then you get into the conversation of HMG. And HMG.

Stoph (49:03.466)

No, he did a front lat spread.

Stoph (49:09.)


Stoph (49:12.351)


Paul (49:26.254)

is what a lot of guys, HMG is a different subject because in a way, HMG is hydr So HMG as a word I had to look up just to make sure I pronounced it right, hydr So HM, no that's HMB, wait, that's not HMG, HMG.

Paul (49:54.09)

I'm an idiot. I clicked on a link for HMB. Where are you? Human Metapausal Granatotropin. I feel like a fucking idiot. This whole time I'm looking at this term I'm like, oh, that's clearly what it is. Doi. I always just called it HMG. I've never called it by the scientific name. It's Human Metapausal Granatotropin. So really what HMG is in terms of men is It's kind of like almost comparing enco

Stoph (50:05.927)


Paul (50:21.266)

And clomophene is the better version of clomid. HMG is arguably the better version of HCG. What HMG does is instead of just helping your LH levels, it also helps your FSH and LH. So, let me speak from a study standpoint on LH versus FSH directly. So, luteinazin hormone is LH and FSH is follicle-stimulating hormone. So, FSH is about.

follicular growth and ovulation. So guys do have obviously FSH levels. It helps with reproduction, all of that. So the big term you wanna think is almost like test, total tests and free test. So total test is like really the mark you wanna look at for the most part. It's gonna tell you if you're healthy or not. Your free test is kind of like, it's the free testosterone that's floating throughout your blood and your free testosterone kind of goes wherever it needs to go. So if you have higher free test,

that almost directly translates into better muscle gains. So total test, yes, it tells you if you're gonna get bigger or not, just based off your testosterone levels, but also if you have like, let's say you have normal total test, but then higher free test, you're probably gonna be at a better place than higher total test and lower free test. So you kind of look at FSH and LH kind of in that matter, just for HMG's sake, because if you're attacking both your LH and your FSH,

it's arguably going to be better for your body and also better for your overall fertility than just your LH alone. So let's see if we could find it in terms of men because everything is talking about women. So in men, here we go. So in men, LH stimulates testosterone production in interstitial cells of the testes are called latex cells.

FSH stimulates testicular growth and enhances the production of an endrogen binding protein by the sirtoli cells, which are a component of the testicular tubule necessary for sustaining the maturing sperm cell. So the way a lot of guys consider HCG versus HMG is they say HCG is kind of like fertility and HMG is kind of like maintaining testicular size or growing your testicles. Back to normal.

Paul (52:46.902)

So there's that joke, you know, you're taking an anabolic, your balls shrink, and then it became like your dick shrinks. And that's not true. Your dick doesn't shrink, your balls shrinks slightly. But some guys experience more testicular shrinkage than others.

Stoph (52:54.352)


Stoph (52:58.291)

Sure, your testes will shrink, but is that really a bad thing?

Paul (53:03.186)

Yeah, it makes your dick look bigger. So it's like when you're shutting down your FSH, specifically, your balls will theoretically will shrink, because you no longer need to keep sperm cells within your testes or produce sperm cells in conjunction with your testes. So when your FSH and LH are in the shitter, your testicles are going to get smaller. That's just the fact.

They're not going to shrivel up like raisins, at least from what I've been told and what other guys have experienced, you're not just going to shrivel up. They might, you know, shrink a little bit, but they're not going to just like disappear. They're still going to be there. Also, guys, if you're listening still, just make sure you guys check for testicular cancer on the regular basis. Always do that. I would say like as frequent as you can, just feel your balls, make sure that there's no lump or anything like that, because it's very common for testicular cancer. And.

Stoph (53:51.697)


Paul (53:59.91)

Also, prostate cancer is very, very common in men. Nobody talks about it, but it is twice as common as breast cancer. So make sure you guys get that checked out and if you guys need to get your prostate checked, don't feel ashamed or anything like that. It's a very normal thing to get checked and it could save your life. With that being said, FSH and LH, when they're low, they will shrink your testicles. So what HMG is gonna do is help with FSH and LH production. So typically,

It's not typically so typically you take FSH not FSH. It's CG with HMG so HMG is usually using construction with a CG a lot of bodybuilders argue Why not take HMG instead of HG on cycle because HMG also helps your FSH levels where? Hcg is just your LH levels so HMG the way that works for dosages is really we're talking in the range of like you're going bankrupt because

HMG is very expensive. It is in terms of IUs as well, but it's a much lower IUs. This is why I say there's no way IUs is universal, because like a full vial of HMG is 35 IUs, but then a full vial of ECG is 5,000 IUs. So I think it's just in terms of whatever you're talking about as a way of measuring it. So for HMG, the dosage.

Stoph (55:19.628)


Paul (55:25.462)

It's going to vary drastically. There's a lot less studies done on HMG. There's a lot less anecdotal data. It's very difficult to find like what's ideal out there because I've seen everything from like 25 milligrams every other day to 75 milligrams, or sorry, I use 25 I use every other day to like 75 I use per day. So it's, there's, there's so much variance in there.

But HMG, like I said, is really what's going to break the bank if we're talking fertility. So HCG is a lot more doable in the sense of financial side of things. Bodybuilding is inherently very expensive. So getting good results with the HCG and also not breaking the bank is going to be very valuable to a lot of bodybuilders. But if you happen to have the money, if you are a liver king, then you can afford a vial of HMG a day and it really wouldn't hurt.

Stoph (56:05.649)


Paul (56:23.71)

maybe in the very, very long term, but I couldn't really find any studies on like long-term HMG usage or any sort of anecdotal data on HMG usage. So with that being said, in the terms of bodybuilding, there's videos online you'll see where basically what HMG will do for bodybuilders is a much better job at what HCG does.

and also maintain better testicular volume. ACG will help that, but not as much as HMG. So a lot of the anecdotal side of things I've seen is anywhere from 50 to 75 IUs, either every day or every other day. And the reason I say this breaks the bank because HMG, like the cheapest, like good source that I could find that isn't from a sketchy website.

Is 75 I use is like 40 or 45 bucks and some of these guys are using that much per day or every other day So like that shit gets so expensive let's say we are talking in terms of Let me pull up a calculator here. Just talking to the math. Let's say we are talking about study five I use per day. So it's 45. Let's just say $45 times 35 Because that's our sorry. Sorry not 75 duh. Let's just say let's just say 30 days in a month, right?

Stoph (57:26.657)


Paul (57:50.87)

That's $1,350 a month. That's... yeah, exactly. My rent is fucking that much.

Stoph (57:57.595)

I can't even spend that in like a year. Granted, my financials are different, but still. Yeah, we do.

Paul (58:05.714)

Yeah, you're a teacher, you get shafted. You get shafted in the money department. But yeah, so this is where it'll break the bank. So for me, the dosage is 25 milligrams every three days, which is very doable. And actually, believe it or not, that's like the lowest dosage I've seen anywhere, is what my coach is telling me to take. So I think the idea is that the focus is more ECG and the HMG is supporting structure. But if you're taking HMG alone,

Stoph (58:32.58)


Paul (58:35.638)

or the primary focus is HMG, the dosages for a lot of bodybuilders is 50 I use every day or every other day or 75 I use every day or every other day, depending on what you can afford. 50 I use every other day is obviously a lot more doable, but also like if you think about it, 75 I use a day, you'd literally bang through a vial a day, which is fucking crazy to think about. But

A vial of HMG is fucking this big. It's so tiny. It's a little tiny vial. So like, um... I'm trying to think of like an example. So like here is my DHEA and Pregnant Alone. I have it on my desk so I can take it. Like the vial of... yeah, like, well this is something you can get at fucking Walmart for like eight bucks. This cap is bigger than the vial of HMG in every way. Like that's how tiny these vials are. So they're very small vials.

Stoph (59:14.031)


Paul (59:30.026)

Um, it's just crazy to me that these guys are blown through a vial a day. But so I told my coach, I was like, man, I just wish HMG wasn't so expensive. I was like, I'd be way more open to taking more of it. And he's like, well, kids are expensive. I'm like, I mean, you got me there, but also like the average kid costs 1100 a month and that's a full human being. I'm not going to take HMG, which may or may not really change. Like it'll help, but like.

I could still get the same results.

Stoph (59:59.498)

Your fitness goals are purely measured on other human beings. Like, I want to be spending so much that there's another human.

Paul (01:00:08.842)

Yeah, like my HMG is more cost than one baby, let alone everything else. On average.

Stoph (01:00:14.479)

How many RUs are you taking? One baby?

Paul (01:00:18.678)

roughly 1.2 babies per month roughly

Stoph (01:00:21.999)

We just found our universal measurement.

Paul (01:00:25.418)

in terms of babies. How much testosterone are you taking a month? Roughly a tenth of a baby.

Stoph (01:00:28.623)


Stoph (01:00:32.121)


Paul (01:00:36.944)

But yeah, so it gets very expensive. So really at the end of the day, HCG and HMG are just going to really promote fertility. Oh, jeez, I almost dropped my coffee. So in men, let me see.

Paul (01:00:56.354)

Let me find a study because I know there's been tons.

Paul (01:01:03.727)

So, ATG.

Paul (01:01:09.341)

Uhhh... Ffff-

Paul (01:01:14.247)

Turns in they're doing it in terms of moles dude. I don't want to do it. I don't want to read in terms of moles Give me nanograms

Stoph (01:01:18.563)

Yeah, we want we want in terms of babies

Paul (01:01:22.35)

Um, yeah, exactly. ACG for, for sperm count. Let's say sperm count and let's find this exact study. I should have had this already pulled up, but, um.

Paul (01:01:37.686)

Yeah, so ACG, it's, the study is pretty much every study and really any endocrinologist will show that ACG can literally reinitiate your body's ability to produce sperm if you're not producing it in the first place. So okay, let's see. It doesn't really say exactly.

Okay, so like let's say we're talking, so there's a study here. There's been a few, okay, here we go, sperm concentration. So, so there is varicoselectomy. So varicoselectomy is a term that's pretty, varicoselectomy is a surgical procedure that treats a varicocele or varicocell.

it reduces testicular pain and can increase male fertility. So they use HCG in conjunction with this surgery. It's probably just like similar something to like getting snipped, you know, where you probably just stay awake, they just numb the area and then you're done. But let's say, so before the surgery and HCG, and with HCG and then versus after, there really wasn't that much of a difference before and after surgery. But the difference here is you have to get surgery in order for it to happen in the first place.

That's different to the study, so actually, let's not really use that. But let's say we're talking in terms of like, okay, so there is a study that was done. Here, let me share my screen so you guys can all see it. So there was a study done. Let's see if it's, where is it? Which one are you?

Paul (01:03:20.822)

Here we go. This is it. So there was a study done. So the average age of the groups was around 30 plus or minus two and a half years. And the second group was around 33 plus or minus three years. So marriage duration, doesn't really matter, history of underlying disease. So this is in percentage of their life most likely. So 25% of their life versus about 29% of their life.

time of try for fertility, history of medical therapy. So really the way I would look at this is like, once they're fertile, this is how long it takes once they're fertile. So it's actually shown that ACG drastically improved the amount of time it took for them to become fertile. So I wish it would just tell me exactly what this, there's a separate window.

I'm sure it'll tell me exactly what these numbers all meant. Like it just says mean plus or minus standard deviation. This is all surgical state data. Let's see. Conclusion. Can improve the fertility rate and better sperm mitogenesis with lower adverse effects in patients with varicoseal and abnormal semen analysis. So ACG obviously with just this one alone has been shown to improve reproducing.

sperm again and increasing the amount that was produced. I want to find like an exact, like I wish they could be like before and after, like this is what the studies were done before for sperm count, this is what was done afterwards.

Paul (01:05:07.518)

Yeah, this is, there's this website right here, male Here's it, let me share my screen one more time. I think this is it right here. Yeah, look, so 500 IUs all the way up till 4,000 IUs three times a week. So typical starting dosage is 2,000 IUs three times a week, which is roughly what I was taking, it was just under that. It was right between here and here, roughly. As a typical starting dosage for PCT.

Thanks for watching.

This is just HCG instruction. Yeah, it doesn't say exactly what the fertility differences are. I got to find this, and I'll tag it to this video, or maybe I'll create a separate segment. But yeah, it's been shown to drastically improve it. Like I said earlier, there's this 63-year-old guy who had twins after taking the ECG. And then HMG is going to provide a similar benefit that ECG is going to provide.

Stoph (01:05:58.554)


Paul (01:06:09.542)

It's just typically it's a lot more expensive and you can get a lot of the same results with ACG. But again, HMG is just going to help that much more. So I got to find an exact sperm count. I'll look that up and I'll let you guys know where it's at because that'd be great to know because again, like I said, healthy amount is 20 million or higher is considered healthy.

20 million or lower is considered unhealthy. You can get, I did do a sperm analysis not too long ago and it was said, you can get them kind of like, they're pretty cheap if you just wanna know if you're healthy or not. It's kind of like a pregnancy test. You just measure your sperm and it's like, okay, if it's below 20 million, there's no line. If it's above 20 million, there is a line. It just tells you whether or not you're healthy. Mine was unhealthy, but that was kind of what was expected.

Stoph (01:06:58.727)


Paul (01:06:59.49)

But again, like even just in clomophene alone, the studies that were done showed that they were unhealthy originally, and then they got like above, you know, 75 million after that. So the studies are there, but really just wanted to talk to you guys about this today, just because it's not talked about much. You know, these can be tools to utilize to further your bodybuilding careers prior to taking anything super anabolic.

But again, don't take any of this stuff. This is all just what I'm reading off and studies and all of that. So.

Stoph (01:07:31.919)

And everything that Paul says is a lie. Yes.

Paul (01:07:34.966)

It's all a lie. Don't believe any of it. None of it's real. It's all a simulation. None of this is real. Yeah, your life isn't real. There's no such thing as free will.

Stoph (01:07:36.272)

We live in the Matrix.

Stoph (01:07:40.424)

That's gonna be part of our disclaimer. You are in a simulation.

Stoph (01:07:51.906)

Free will by rush starts playing in the background.

Paul (01:07:55.494)

Yeah, exactly. That'll be our theme song. Yeah, so these are just tools you guys can utilize in order to further bodybuilding career theoretically. But again, I think you guys if you guys can do it naturally, do it naturally. But there are plenty of tools out there to teach you. And I hate the whole like, oh, doing Google searches is not research, reading studies and understanding what statistical studies are and reading about

Stoph (01:07:57.447)


Paul (01:08:25.77)

um, anecdotal data and the scientific backing that is in itself defined as research. That's called the observations.

Stoph (01:08:33.372)

You can Google stuff, you just can't read the paragraphs that it displays as the preview. You have to go in and make sure that it's a research study, independent study, something.

Paul (01:08:38.452)


Paul (01:08:43.526)

Yeah, you can't use Google as like a source. You know, Google is just a search engine. But yeah, that's why like, you know, people say like, oh, with the COVID vaccine or whatever, like people are doing their own research and they don't know what they're doing, blah, blah. But it's like, if you're reading studies about it, and the studies are backed by science and backed by actual researchers and stuff like that, you can use that as your basis for your understanding or your knowledge of it and why you decided what you decided. You know, so like taking these doses is not.

Stoph (01:08:45.208)

Exactly, yeah.

Paul (01:09:10.578)

anecdotal based off of what I've tried, it's based off the studies that they've done, you know, so like this is the research that I've done and this is what is backed. Even though I didn't do the actual physical research doesn't mean I didn't do my own research and the version of research is observation. So with that being said, there's plenty of research tools out there for you guys, plenty of studies to read up on, especially if you've taken a statistics course, it'll be easier to understand what these statistical analysis mean and how to interpret them.

Stoph (01:09:14.425)


Paul (01:09:40.51)

Statistics is very important. But yeah with that being said we just purchased in I just wanted to present it to you guys for You guys to form your own opinion Basis based off of the studies that I've seen and the anecdotal that I've read there's a lot of forums online in the bodybuilding world Talking about what doses guys take and what they recommend and stuff like that And that's the stuff that I was reading. So with that being said This is my spiel for the day. I talked a lot appreciate you listening stuff and just kind of chiming in with questions stuff like that here and there

Stoph (01:10:07.163)

Hell yeah. Learning opportunities for everyone.

Paul (01:10:10.974)

Yeah, definitely. I'm always here for it. I always want to bestow the knowledge that I learn. So with that being said, I appreciate you guys listening. We'll be back next week with another episode. And stay frosty, make some gains, eat some protein, get some sleep. Stay frosty. Stay frosty, fellas.

Stoph (01:10:23.911)

Ha ha ha! Stay frosty, fucking hell.

Stoph (01:10:30.515)

Jesus. Alright, peace.

Paul (01:10:33.77)

See you guys.

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