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  • Writer's pictureHall of Gains and Hypertrophy Podcast

HGH #67 - Arnold Classic UK + Mike Mentzer

Paul (00:01.267)


Stoph (00:01.506)

Arnold wins his own second tournament?

Paul (00:05.219)

Arnold for three art classics in a row. It's a parlay. Yeah. But we are mentioning Arnold again because Art Classic UK is this weekend. We're not going to dive too much into the results because we think that the results are going to end up being about the same as they were for the Art Classic US. So.

Stoph (00:08.814)

The three -peat is on.

Stoph (00:13.518)

Golf terms the grand slam is on.

Paul (00:31.739)

There's three, I believe, Auto Classic UK, Auto Classic US, and Auto Classic South America, which takes place in Brazil. But here is Gilco Productions again. So pre -judging happened, I think, all last night. So we've already seen the comparisons. Maybe finals? I mean, these look like final posing, but I'm not sure if that's the truth. Heidi, I think, is looking even better.

Stoph (00:48.096)


Stoph (00:58.426)

You're right, I was gonna say you're right, Hottie looks great.

Paul (01:03.755)

Yeah, I think he's looking even better. His waist looks like the biggest thing like he looks as lean as he did before but for some reason his waist looks way tighter now. Which you'll see in a second.

Stoph (01:13.934)


Could also be the angle because Gilco's more underneath on this one than he was at the Arnold Classic US.

Paul (01:22.971)

Yeah So like here let me pull up

I gotta share a different screen. Let me see if I could share a different screen here.

I should share the, there we go. I'll share this. Here we go. Okay. Yeah. So this is, this is what I sent stuff last night. Um, like, look at, like, look at his waist, like a small, small waist and hottie trooper do not go to the same stations at all. Like almost never. Um, he, he's always had kind of a bigger waist. It's just, it's just men's open. A lot of times they don't have tiny weights, but like he fucking came in fucking crazy, dude.

Stoph (01:45.134)


Stoph (01:54.606)


Stoph (02:04.366)

Well, just on a straight comparison, that right there, it's the V taper and it absolutely decimates Samsons. Cause like, look at him from the back. He looks, yeah, he looks great, but I'm saying just on a waste perspective, it's not even a competition.

Paul (02:13.531)

Yeah, I think Samsung looks crazy.

Paul (02:20.379)

Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, his shoulder to waist ratio is just way better. Samson is also a tall ass dude, too. So that doesn't really help. Like that's to have like a crazy VT like, OK, here's the thing with like tall guys like when you put on a lot of size and you're tall, you're going to be one of two things. You're either going to have a really wide waist because you have to hold on to all the size or you're going to be like a god basically and have the tiniest fucking waist and the widest.

Stoph (02:27.758)

Yeah, it is.

Paul (02:49.819)

Like there's dudes I've seen that are like, like the self -helpman store I go to, there's a guy who used to work there and he was these like, I think I talked to him, he competes in classic and he's like six four, six five. Dude was like 250 pounds, like, like relatively comfortable. Like he's not pushing weight, he's not cutting, nothing like that.

Stoph (02:56.014)


Paul (03:09.979)

And the dude just looked like a god. Like his shoulders were like five feet wide and his waist was like an inch. Like it was nuts. So I think that's just kind of Samson. Like he has to, in order to hold on to a lot more size, he has to have a wider waist. But again, it's just Samson's midsection, man. I just, I just can't do it. I don't know what it is. I just don't, I just don't like it personally. It's not anything against him. I'm just not the biggest fan of his midsection.

Stoph (03:25.87)

Thank you.

Stoph (03:36.262)

Well, look at the, like, as they're standing next to each other. The size of Samson's midsection is like three quarters of Hottie's whole upper body. Like, just from a, like, length perspective.

Paul (03:48.921)

Yeah, it is pretty big. Yeah. Yeah, he does. And then we did, you did see that photo. I think I sent it to you of, I think, hostile supplements posted it. Okay, let me see if I can find it here. Hostile supplements posted a photo. And it really does show like the difference between pros and like amateurs. Let me see if I could.

I can't come on. I can't find like the actual account on PC. They make it so hard to navigate Instagram on computer. I must have sent it to you on my other one. I think, yeah, let me see.

Stoph (04:29.42)


Paul (04:43.707)

Because it's crazy, like it shows like a lot of the hostile supplements team, right? And... Okay, now it's just not working. Okay, what the hell is going on?

All right. All right.

Paul (05:00.003)

See maybe here Yeah, here it is here it is. Okay. I got it. Okay All right, so this is a great example of The difference between Amateurs and pros, right? So like Samsung data right here, right? And look at like Samsung for instance guys if you're watching like this would help a lot like

Sam is known as like a really big dude, but like, granted he's standing a couple feet back from Samson, don't get me wrong, but like, his overall physique too is just like, Samson's just on another level.

Stoph (05:39.008)


Paul (05:40.399)

You know, it's just, it's not even close. It's just, it's just how it goes. This is amateur versus pro. Like this is why, like this is the top of the top. Like Samuelsson's like top five Olympia basically. Like this is why these guys stand out.

Stoph (05:50.734)

And what's crazy about this picture too is that in all of this is, you know, branching off more into Sam Sulek stuff, but in Sam Sulek's videos and pictures, he's got a pretty good looking chest. And then you look at this picture and it's like, it's not even close to being comparable to anybody there.

Paul (06:10.011)

I also don't think this is a good pose for him too. Like this is a great pose for Samson, this is a bad pose for Sam. You know, like that's why they say like, like the posing that you do, you only want to do what makes you look good, right? And I don't think Sam would ever do this pose because it just doesn't make him look good. It widens his waist, it shrinks his chest, where with Samson, it's the opposite. You know, it makes his waist look narrower cause he's popping out of shoulders, his chest looks full. So I mean, it could be...

Stoph (06:15.382)



Stoph (06:27.756)


Paul (06:39.723)

skill with posing, you know, it could just be that Samson's got more time with posing and understands it more and Sam doesn't. But like, look at the other guys too, like they, it doesn't really look like that. They do this pose often, you know, it's like, I mean, not that they don't do it often. It's that they don't like, it's not their best pose. Like I think that these guys would look better in a different pose. Same with this guy over here. Like.

Stoph (06:57.398)


Paul (07:08.635)

They all look better, but it makes Samson look that much better, you know? So.

Stoph (07:09.462)


Yeah, I get that. And then all the guys wearing, you know, slim fit joggers, whatever, and then Sam's in the Coles sweatpants. No, sorry, not Sam's. Sam Sulek is in his classic. That's what I mean. Everyone else is wearing perfect taper and perfect fit joggers.

Paul (07:21.563)

the shorts.

Paul (07:28.123)

Oh, yeah. Just like regular ass sweatpants you get from a Walmart or something.

Paul (07:39.035)

This looks like Jed North, I think. This is like Jed North. These are like joggers with pockets on the sides.

Stoph (07:46.062)

And then the - he's not even hiding the strings either from his sweatpants.

Paul (07:50.319)

No, just tied strings, just tied strings. This dude's got baggy cargo pants that kind of fit the vibe. Same as like, I'm comfy. I'm just comfy as hell.

Stoph (07:58.646)


That's also why so many people love him, because he's just such a normal dude.

Paul (08:07.611)

Yeah, exactly. You seen that dog video where he's doing the tricep pushdown? Oh, he's doing tricep pushdown. This dog walks by him and he's like, I'm going to go for like a few more. Oh yeah. Yeah. Hello. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He stops his set like mid set and his walks over. Hello. And I'm the same way. The gym I go to has a dog and anytime I get a chance to pet her, I take it because she's so skittish.

Stoph (08:13.598)


Oh, yes. And then he goes, wait.

Stoph (08:26.414)


Stoph (08:29.902)


Stoph (08:36.142)


Paul (08:36.283)

She doesn't come over often, but when she comes over and starts smelling my bag and stuff, I'm like, hello, what are you doing? And I say hi. She doesn't do it often though, but yeah, so this is what I was mentioning earlier. Yeah, just the pros are just on a different level. It's crazy to see that. Speaking of pros, I did have the seminar last weekend, which was pretty good.

Stoph (09:02.806)

Mm -hmm.

Paul (09:05.913)

J -Main was there as far as like NPC IPB stuff goes. Had some Carolina promoters there too, people who run the Carolina shows. So this is the fourth one. The first one was 45 people apparently. This next one next year, they've already rented out the Charlotte Convention Center or something like that. So there's gonna be like a whole like actual like auditorium kind of thing for next year where this, where the past few years I've been.

Stoph (09:23.242)

Wow. Yeah.

Paul (09:34.437)

It's been taking place in the like by the classrooms in the gym in gold. So It's it's outgrown at this point Where it's you know, it doesn't hold everybody. Um, so Going to be even bigger next year gonna hopefully they were saying hopefully getting Tyler mania now if possible So that'd be kind of cool. But yeah, we had some big pros there. We had We had Andre Ferguson. We had Ben Kiel we had

Emmanuel Hunter there. A few pros in classic as well. What's his name? I always forget his last name, it's guy Tom.

Paul (10:19.931)

Let me see. Thomas Allen was there. He's a professional in classic. I think he's moving up to open though. Yeah, so some pretty big pros there, like a lot of pros actually. We have our coaches there who's a pro as well. A lot of female pros.

Stoph (10:43.086)

I feel like it has to be such a delicate line to cross because you obviously want to go and just like, not fanboy, but these are the best of the best, so you want to just go and be a fan, but then you're also there seminar -wise to be learning. So I feel like it's got to be some like, you're sitting there with your Sharpie getting ready for someone to sign it, but then you're like, wait, not right now.

Paul (11:08.571)

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's like, I've already seen a lot of these guys before and met them before. So it wasn't like anything crazy. Like last year was crazy because that's when all the big pros were there for the first time. So like it was crazy seeing like Andre Ferguson, for instance, because like I saw him first in Generation Iron, you know, and now I'm seeing him again, you know, it's pretty cool to see them. You know, I'm not really, I didn't really ask for like any autographs or anything like that.

Stoph (11:27.382)


Paul (11:37.305)

But it was cool to see like, you know, their process and all that. What was disappointing was the one physique I wanted to see was Ben Keel's. He didn't show it. He wouldn't show it. I don't know why he just, you know, they were telling me to get up on stage to pose and you say, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like you say, no. So I'm like, damn. Cause that was one of, he's one of my favorite men's physique competitors. His overall upper body structure is insane. Lower body has no legs, which is.

Stoph (11:48.534)


Stoph (12:02.014)

Ha ha.

Paul (12:06.907)

a damn shame. But yeah, it was pretty cool. I didn't learn too too much. A lot of what they went over and talked about was kind of already talked about the past, you know, like, you know what they are looking for in the shows and stuff like that. But for me, I asked a couple of questions of the promoters, the people who do the judging and all of that. And I asked about moving from when you're doing your front pose.

I said it's kind of like a joke now that like men's physique guys can't stop moving their arm. And I said, is that, does that take away from anything? And they said not, I want to say they said like not really, but if you stand still in your best pose, you know, we'll only see more of your strengths where the more you move, the more chances we see your weaknesses, right? And that's one of the things that they...

Stoph (12:42.67)


Stoph (12:58.254)

Are you talking about when you're hitting the front and then you just like reposition your arm? Is that what you're talking about? Okay.

Paul (13:05.031)

Yeah, yeah exactly and that's one things that like Her name is Mo. She's she's well known like Carolina judge She judges a lot of the IFBB and NPC shows in Carolinas and she used to be competitor. She was pro as well And like she's pretty close with my coach So like, you know, I'm trying to work my way in there play the game and get to know her more But she was the one who's talking to a lot of people

About like what they're looking for and she was really the one that was like kind of like straight to the point and she's like look Like the more you move the more weaknesses we see she's like our job is to find the weaknesses That's how we determine who's placing where so if you're going to show me weaknesses, i'm going to see them um And she talked about it with women and guys and all that. Um, and for guys like they really emphasize like when you're doing when you're doing um,

Stoph (13:38.674)


Paul (13:58.309)

comparisons. This is what was interesting to me. She said they're like, when you do the comparisons, don't do any sort of transitions. They're like, just go from front to back to front. You know, like, don't don't do anything flashy. They're like, because we're we just want you to show your front and show your back. They're like, if you do transitions, and you're taking longer and all that, then it's going to stand out and we're not going to like it. And one of the pros was talking about like, when you're here, like, to the front post, he's like, this is how you get to the back pose. He's like, two seconds.

Stoph (14:05.13)


Stoph (14:12.174)

Thank you.

Paul (14:27.547)

And he's like, the sooner you get back, you get to the back pose, the better, right? He's like, you want to get as fast as possible there. So you'll be the first one that they're looking at while everybody else is still moving. So that was one of the things that they really emphasize. And a lot of the pros, which has been true for me lately, like this has been a lot on my mind lately, but a lot of the pros, something they really like kept emphasizing was trust the process. They're like, seriously, like so many of them were like, trust the process. That's the biggest thing.

Stoph (14:53.838)


Paul (14:57.083)

And that's so hard. It's been hard for me lately just because, you know, putting on some fat, I've leveled off weight wise, which is good, but putting on fat and stuff like that, you know, trusting the process. And now I'm starting to see some progress again, which is great to see, you know, so you got to trust it and know that it's all for a reason. And even though it might not, you might not be the happiest for a month, you know, you're definitely going to be glad you did whatever you did in the long term, you know, so that's something I got to hold on to.

Stoph (15:26.734)

I'm with you there. I think I texted you what like a couple weeks ago and I was like sad sad hours abs no longer around fluffy

Paul (15:35.451)

Yeah, it sucks. It sucks losing your abs, you know, because like, especially when you get used to them. I got used to them for prep and, you know, just losing them over time just sucks so bad. I mean, it felt like it's not the truth, but it felt like a week after my last show, I lost all my gains, like all my prep effort that I put in, you know.

Stoph (16:00.206)


Paul (16:00.443)

That's what I felt like. It's not true. You know, looking back, I would love to have the physique I had a week after my show, but like the physique that I had when I visited up in August, um, right after my show, like I would have loved to have that, you know, all six abs showing super vascular, you know, I was, I was pretty good there. And like, even though I had a bunch of food in my system, like I was still pretty, I was still really lean. So I just, you know, it's, it's a reality. You know, you kind of like, you, you,

Stoph (16:12.11)


Paul (16:29.755)

You see only the weaknesses. So I only ever saw what was wrong, not what was right. Um, and that's, that's part of trusting the process is that like, you know, I may not see as much abs right now, but if I go back a couple of weeks, I bet you less abs are showing than they are now. Um, and like even my delts, like I could tell with my delts alone in my back, my back, my back and my delts have definitely improved over the past couple of weeks alone, like just getting, you know, getting them more tone, you know, pulled in.

Stoph (16:35.66)


Paul (16:59.611)

and some fat gone, you know? So it's good to see all that. Over time, you just gotta trust it though, because sometimes it may seem like counterintuitive what you're doing. It might seem like, oh, I'm putting on fat and losing strength, like what's going on, but it's for a reason, you know? And it's, you gotta, like I said, you gotta trust the process. And that's what I'm doing.

Stoph (17:04.846)

Thank you.

Stoph (17:09.046)

. . .

Paul (17:20.987)

The other thing I learned too was when it comes to posing, especially men's physique and like with classic and men's open, it's a bit more strict when it comes to like comparisons, just because they want to see everybody doing the exact same thing. But when it comes to men's physique, it's all about like being like as like, like we've talked about it before, like as aesthetic as possible. It's all about like who has the like best ideal body, right?

Stoph (17:29.518)


Paul (17:50.235)

And when I was getting critiqued on my posing, I was pretty much good for the most part, just a couple of things here and there. But the thing I was learning was that like each guy who critiqued me changed my physique, like my pose. You know, like some of them would say, oh, put your foot more forward, put your foot more back. Some would say, you know, angle your shoulders more forward. Some would say, angle your shoulders with your waist. Like it's like each one's a little different. So it's kind of like, all right, it's kind of up for.

like it's up to like each one's little like because each one's a little different you got to take them all with a grain of salt you know you need to like keep that in mind that each physique is different and each posing is different so just because you may be posing slightly different than somebody else doesn't mean that you're posing wrong it just means that you're posing slightly different you know so that's something I gotta keep in mind.

Stoph (18:38.446)

I was about to say that's like the truest example of why bodybuilding is subjective because you have I mean if you look at like Men's physique, I can't really you know dive as deep into because it's just two poses maybe three if you count the transition, but like you go classic like just on a front double I bet like looking at

Paul (18:45.945)

Mm -hmm.

Stoph (19:03.822)

at the panel where they're... not the panel, but where they're all up there, they're all going to be hitting it in a different way in terms of weight placement, arm height, like obviously you want the parallel angle, but for the most part, they're all going to be doing it in their own way and that's just for one pose, like you hit all the other poses and they're all going to be doing it in their own way, so it's just... however, you can emphasize your own best points with... so you're right, like if the person says, put your front foot forward,

Maybe it's like to just get a little bit more of a turn like in your waist so then you can angle a little bit better. Like it always has to be just to emphasize your straw importance.

Paul (19:41.985)

Yeah, and then sometimes I would say like I would see like guys critiquing me a little bit differently too So it's like in my back my back pose is a lot different now Actually, I did learn a lot with my back biggest thing was I was having my arms way too out like upwards like this so You know angling more downwards I do see a difference now my back does look wider and my waist looks looks narrower with my new back pose But ultimately it was like my front pose was pretty much fine where it was

Stoph (19:57.846)


Paul (20:11.803)

There's not really much else to critique. Oh, Jeremy Buendia. That was the other person. I was trying to think of Jeremy Buendia was there. That was pretty cool to see Jeremy just because he's been around for so long in men's physique. He's been around longer than Andre Ferguson has. Jeremy, I think has been there since the beginning.

Stoph (20:27.07)

This thing

When Dio's thing is always wearing that bandana, isn't it? Or am I thinking of a different guy?

Paul (20:35.355)

Maybe maybe when he's training. I'm not he was Yeah, I don't think he was wearing one that the day of the seminar But I think he wears kind of like a hairband thing when he trains I think um or like a bandana um, but yeah, he's been there since like the very beginning I think of like the olympia of men's physique. I'm pretty sure um Yeah, he's been around for a while. He he has brought a lot of light to men's physique over time You know his um, popularity has

Stoph (20:37.676)

Yeah, well that's one.

Paul (21:05.243)

you know, gone up, gone down, gone up, gone down, but he's back at it now back to competing and all that. So it was kind of cool to see, see him there and he had a big presence there. You know, he had a great relationship. It seemed with a lot of people, um, you know, all a lot of the promoters and stuff like that, they all kind of knew who he was. Um, so it was interesting to see that, uh, you know, that, that relationship there, it's a game, you know, bodybuilding is a game that you gotta play.

And there's certain things that, you know, there's a lot of nuance. There's a lot, a lot of nuance with bodybuilding. And one of the things about bodybuilding nuance is the better you know the judges and stuff like that, the better chance of placing well at shows and the better chance of getting good critiques that will help you. So you got to build those relationships. Yeah, you got to build the relationships and...

Stoph (21:58.458)

That's what I was gonna say, yeah. Like...

Paul (22:04.603)

they gotta know who you are and that will actually subconsciously put them, put you in a better light on stage than other people.

Stoph (22:14.606)

Yeah, it's like if you take away the scoring and you take away like going for competitions and shows and all of that, like if you do it like solely from a point, like a standpoint of how can I improve as like with my physique, they're going to give you the best feedback. Like it's just like if you and I are in the gym together, you and I have known each other for a long, long time. So we're able to comfortably give each other potentially uncomfortable feedback.

Whereas if I have someone brand new in the gym and let's say like we're past unsolicited advice level, like you maybe like have had a conversation or two, I'm not as willing to have an uncomfortable conversation saying like, this is a weak spot for you. Like that can be hard to say, like especially people in the gym, cause we're like so focused on improving constantly that if someone says this is a weak point and that wasn't something you considered a weak point.

That can be like really tough to hear, but that's why, you know, like you said, having that relationship with especially pro level judges. Um, that's, I mean, that's a bridge you got to cross every single time.

Paul (23:24.891)

Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, they, if you email the judges afterwards, they'll still tell you like what to work on. But, you know, knowing them, you know, they, some of them might, you know, be able to tell you how you're looking, you know, before a show or whatever. Not that, like that would change much. That's the thing. It's not like, it's not like you're handing someone like the other team's playbook, right? You're not like handing them like literal cheats. You can't just like change your physique in a week. But if somebody's like,

you know, if you ask a judge a week in advance or something, if you know them enough, like, Hey, how am I looking? I'm sure that they'd be like, well, you got to really tighten up this or, you know, you, your next off season, you need to grow this stuff like that. Um, you know, like give you, it's not going to change results. Really. It's all going to be whoever's the best bodybuilder that day. So even if you look amazing a week out, you know, you might look like shit the day of, and they might place you super far back. Um, but getting the, getting the critiques afterwards, um,

You know, they said my back was a big focus. After my last show, they said, you know, with the thickness in my back, it needs to come out. And then also my upper chest, which is surprising. I thought my upper chest was one of my strengths, but it's supposedly to them one of my weaknesses. I thought my weaknesses were my arms, but they didn't say anything about my arms. So that's what I'm be working on now is my new split is to be, I went off and it's, it goes back.

Stoph (24:38.198)


Paul (24:53.211)

Arms so back is day one arms is day two, but I do touch up my upper chest of day two So I do like one or two movements in my upper chest. The three is legs and then rest Now day four is back day five is chest and buys and then day six of training is is

Paul (25:20.315)

I hit everything just about twice a week. Besides legs. Legs really the only thing I don't really hit twice a week, but everything else I hit.

Stoph (25:29.066)


Paul (25:30.267)

To work on those weaknesses that the judges were saying right so Got to improve upon that. I've already got compliments on my backwards good I do have a new back routine that's a lot more like it's all pull downs and rows really Yeah, pretty much I just went at it like with a very like optimized approach and like really like isolating

Stoph (25:44.538)

Yeah, you were saying that in your snapchat, just like three different rows, three different pull downs.

Stoph (25:59.054)


Paul (25:59.195)

Individual muscles and rather than like doing anything sort of like heavy compound movements. I'm just doing stuff That's like really good like semi compound or isolate And just like really squeezing the hell out of everything I'm just getting like in like also the same time like keeping it pretty intense to like I warm up now with like Probably two to three fourteen reps sets and then the rest is just like eight to twelve Maybe six to twelve like to like close to failure pretty much so

Stoph (26:11.458)

Thank you.

Stoph (26:28.142)

Now do you, let's say you do three different rows, right? Are you doing any single arm movements? Are you doing all two arm together?

Paul (26:37.787)

Yeah, so I do close grip pull downs. Then I go into single arm rows in the cable machine. Then I go do T bar rows, but like a wide grip. Yeah, single arm are great on cables. And I go do T bar rows, wide T bar rows. And then I go do lat pull downs and then I do pull overs on a machine. We got a pull over machine at my gym. So that's my routine. So I do...

Stoph (26:46.84)

Love those.

Paul (27:03.739)

a lot of keyboard, a lot of machine, it's all, it's all cables or machinery. It's all some sort of machinery really. But I keep everything the same, like grip wise, except for the single arm rows. The single arm rows are the only time that they're separate, the grip separate. But I do, I take those nice and slow. I...

So like the start of the rep, my hand is flat with the parallel with the ground. And then when I end, it's perpendicular. So when I row, I turn my hand to the side, like twist it right. Like, know, like from the start here and then I end up here when I'm rowing. And it gets a good squeeze in my outer lat. And then everything else that is, you know, depth is needed or squeeze wherever is needed, you know, middle of my back for close grip pull downs. Outside, like terrace major minor.

Stoph (27:33.826)

Mm -hmm.

Stoph (27:41.202)


Stoph (27:48.79)

Thank you.

Paul (27:58.137)

outer lats, lower lats for wide grip lat pull downs. My rows, I kind of just use my whole back really. I try to get as much of my lats in general as possible. And then my pullovers is like thickness a little bit. So the thickness is really good. It's coming from the close grip pull down and the T -bar rows. And then width is coming from like the pullovers, the single arm rows and the wide grip pull.

So two thickness, three width movements. And if I have the energy, I'll do some abs, but that's twice a week. Now I do that once every four days for back day, which is nice to feel, or once every five days. You know, one, two, three, four, five, once every five days. So roughly twice a week.

Stoph (28:30.124)


Stoph (28:41.152)


Stoph (28:50.254)

One of the things I learned for single arm rows is, especially on the cable, like you talk about, you know, going your grip changing as you come in and then right at the very like peak of that movement, just rolling your shoulder a little bit back and like twisting your whole upper frame a little bit just to get a little bit more squeeze. That was one thing that my coach worked with me when I was back when I was working with him. It was like instead of ending right there, which is where the natural ending of that movement is.

Paul (28:55.579)


Paul (29:18.095)

Mm -hmm.

Stoph (29:18.83)

It's just rotating a little bit more on it to get that little bit, just a little bit more squeeze in your middle back.

Paul (29:23.959)

Yeah, and that's also why um That's also why I like Arnold like what he was doing his rose and what's wrong a lot of people do is They like fall forward towards the machine and then use momentum to pull it back and that's not what he's doing he's leaning forward to stretch out his back and then as he's His back he's pushing back with his like he's you know getting back into them

Stoph (29:36.974)


Paul (29:49.115)

posture at the same time he's rowing so his back is rowing from the start of the cable machine to the very end of the rep So he's not using any momentum even though he's going fast, you know, he's still doing a full row from start to finish You know, he's pulling the whole time. You just get a lot more range of motion And that's the kind of similar similar aspect where if you just pivot a little bit you get a few extra inches of a Range of motion. It also depends on what you're doing. If you do close grip, you can't do that. Okay?

Stoph (29:50.944)


Stoph (30:04.846)


Paul (30:18.939)

but it's the single arm. Yeah, for sure. I did see, you see, I don't know if, I don't think Van Arkee has one, but you ever seen that row machine that's got the plates on the bottom and it's got like two attachments for hands on each side. They're like this and then like this. You know I'm talking about? I saw somebody say that that was the leg press of back rows or something like that.

Stoph (30:40.94)

Yep. Yep.

Paul (30:47.291)

I'm like, holy shit, is that fucking true? I'll be hitting that. I'm on like four or five plays per side. I'm like, damn, I'm strong. But I'm like, wait a minute. This ain't real.

Stoph (30:55.31)


Yeah, my thing whenever I do any row movement that's not cable or dumbbell, like if I'm doing anything, any machine work, I'm not really focused on like, like mentally thinking like if I'm moving this way, I'm strong. Like that's no longer a thought process. I'm now thinking like, I need this weight to get the best feeling possible because it's just the reality. Like I can row.

You're right, on one of those, one of the machines that is kind of like that, where it's plate loaded, I think, close, I mean, I think three plates is my top working set. And then if you translate that over to dumbbells, I'm going over what, 45, 45, 45, that's buck 25, going over and trying to grab a 125 dumbbell. I'm like, I can't move this.

Paul (31:47.675)

Yeah, it doesn't translate. It's like saying like press versus squats. I could, I could like press like right now my top sets like a nice and slow, like eight plates. There's no shot I could ever back squat that. Yeah, pretty much. Like it's like you give, you could like press so much more than you can squat. It's like, I would say it's probably like double. You could probably like press double what your squat is easily as far as like sheer weight goes, but.

Stoph (31:57.902)

We can we can like press a bus

Stoph (32:13.078)


Paul (32:17.019)

with the resistance of the machine and stuff like that, it's not quite the same. And that's how that row machine works. It's like the way the physics works on the plates where the actual like plates are in comparison to the fulcrum, it's very light. You know, it's very light what you're rowing. That's why you have to use so many plates. But then if you use like, that's why the Arsenal T -bar row, if you guys have ever used that, the Arsenal T -bar row, that's why it's called the humbler is because the grip,

is so the way that physics works, right, is T bar rows, typically the machine, the pole that actually holds the plates is really long, right? And on top of that, your grip is usually pretty close to the plates or like pretty much right out where the plates sit. So you can usually do a few plates, but on the Arsenal humbler, what they do is they set it up where like the pole itself is really short and where your grip is, is almost like two thirds of the way down the pole.

Not really even that close to where the plates get onto the machine. So it's a lot, lot heavier because you're using a lot more, like you have to fight gravity a lot harder and there's a lot more resistance in the actual like physics in the machine. So, um, resistance in the physics. Um, so it's, you have to use a lot less weight. Like I max out like a plate and a five, a plate and a 10, something like that on each side where,

Stoph (33:33.07)


Stoph (33:41.134)


Paul (33:45.883)

On the two bar row, I can get like three and a quarter for good like, anywhere between six and eight, depending on my energy, right? It's wild, the difference in weight. So you gotta keep that in mind too, like sometimes machinery is very different in weight than what you're used to and you end up humbling yourself, you know? That's why that machine's called the light press.

Stoph (34:01.346)


Stoph (34:07.87)

Thank you.


Paul (34:15.803)

But another thing that we wanted to touch on too today was actually, regardless of kind of my split was, I was listening to a video of RP Strength and I think it was Jeff Nippard and they were talking about different training styles and stuff and it really like reminded me that just because there's a training style that worked for a pro,

at a certain time doesn't mean that it's true now. And one of the people that they were talking about was, was Mike Menser and they're talking about like what he, his philosophy was. And I'm like, the science and studies that they've done since Mike Menser has been even alive has really disproven basically every single thing he said, um, you know, he's talking about like working out, you know, four times a week, no more than an hour.

We do like one true like to failure set, working set and failure set for each movement. And you just do like, like total body days. It doesn't fucking check out, right? Like it doesn't, the science isn't there. The science doesn't, it disproves that. It says that this is very, very inefficient. So.

Stoph (35:30.19)

I also like every time you and I talk about this, I always think to myself, I'm like, there's no way this is what he was doing. Like we talk about like routines that work for pros that, you know, might not work for other people. Like, for example, like the Arnold, you know, where you do like opposing muscle chest back, like that's, it works for some people. It's not going to work for everybody. But for Mike's Mike Menzer's thing, three days, the video I always see is.

Paul (35:35.491)


Paul (35:43.835)


Paul (35:51.289)


Paul (35:55.131)


Stoph (35:57.678)

If you're working out more than three days for 20 minutes in that workout, you're just not up. And then he goes, it's like the early versions of coach Greg, but it's, it baffles me because there's no way you get Olympia ready and Olympia arguably winning physique because that one where he and Arnold are up there, I definitely think Mike Menzer should have had it, but there's no way you get to that level working out that little.

Paul (36:25.099)


Stoph (36:26.158)

Like, yes, overtraining is a problem, but you gotta be in there for more than, like, if you look at your total hours on the week, like three hours has to be like a minimum. You can't dip below that.

Paul (36:38.715)

Yeah, and three hours is also like considering you're going relatively hard, like you're not wasting your time in there. You know, you're not like, like yesterday, my training session ended up being about an hour and 10 minutes and a lot of that was because I was texting a lot. So I just ended up wasting a lot of time, but yeah, it just doesn't, it just does not check out. Granted also, Mike was also on meth and shit, so kind of got to take what he has to say with a grain of salt, right? But.

Stoph (36:44.878)


Stoph (36:54.062)


Stoph (37:03.692)


Paul (37:07.355)

It just the size doesn't show it. And what's crazy now too is that there's different studies done, numerous studies over the past not too long, few years really. And what is shown is that not training for more than really like an hour is ideal, right? Like you shouldn't be in the gym for more than like weight training. You shouldn't be in the gym for more than an hour yet. Yeah, I would.

Stoph (37:27.698)

45 minutes 45 minutes is kind of like the sweet spot

Paul (37:35.547)

like for me like 45 to an hour depending on the day is is about right like my like my back day for instance might take me like 45 to 50 minutes or so if I'm not like wasting any time.

but it's also extremely tiring. Where my delt day yesterday, even though it was an hour and 10 minutes and I did way more sets and reps, it wasn't as tiring because your delts are a lot smaller than your back is, right? So it's like your back takes a lot more exertion and it takes a lot more of your energy to do it. You're frying your nervous system during back and leg days. That's why it's so tiring. But like what the science is showing is like no more than an hour really. And then even then, if you're like on the advanced side, like your bodybuilder,

Stoph (37:58.08)


Paul (38:21.755)

You know, you know what you're doing you put years in the gym Going to failure is actually not beneficial anymore This is what the study showed the study show that going to true mechanical failure is only really beneficial For beginners or like intermediates in the gym if you're bodybuilding what the studies have shown is that you actually gain more By having a couple reps left in the tank Rather than going to true true failure so that's interesting to see because I

Stoph (38:39.406)


Paul (38:51.361)

Bodybuilders have always been like, it's always about, you know, going to failure and going to mechanical failure and just pushing it as hard as you possibly can. Right. And the studies are showing now that that's not the case. And really where you gain the most muscle has also been shown in the negative. Now, like these studies are showing that it doesn't matter the speed you do of the positive. What matters is that you're counting at anywhere between two and seven seconds on the negative and you'll have.

Stoph (38:52.238)

Thank you.

Paul (39:20.891)

the same results, but it's a slow negative that matters. That's where your body builds. Like you're actually tearing the muscles and you, you, you, you gain hypertrophy, right? So like, that's what these studies are showing, which is really weird to see it's going against what a lot of people have to say. And on top of all of this, right? On top of all of this, it's actually showing that like six to 10 reps or like eight to 12 reps is like the ideal rep range is for muscle.

anything more or less has been shown to have diminishing returns the further away you get from that rep range. This is also, we're also talking about, I'm talking about like muscle building solely. I'm not talking about like cuts or anything like that. You're not cutting, you're not in prep. This is like a growth phase or maintenance phase or something like that. That's what the studies are showing. So really you should be doing like a couple warmup sets, a couple of decent working sets per movement. And then moving on to your next thing.

Stoph (39:51.51)


Paul (40:19.515)

and doing that for no more than 45 minutes to an hour. And that'll be like your best workout. And granted, it does matter what you're doing, like what you're hitting and how you're hitting it and stuff like that. But like the reps and sets, that's what the studies have shown that's new, which is interesting.

Stoph (40:36.398)

See, I really like that, you know, the six, you said six to 12 is kind of like the ideal, you know, rep range. And I wrote two plans recently for a couple of people, not bodybuilding plans, but like people who hit me up like, hey, I want muscle, like muscle improvement plans. Don't talk to me about diet, even though that's what I was going to immediately lead with, like what's your diet look like. But.

Paul (40:49.079)

Mm -hmm.

Stoph (41:02.222)

Just from the workout plan, I love four sets, like, cause I just, I love a four set, uh, like per movement type thing. Um, and I always write them. I start, you know, the warmup set is relatively low weight, but it's 15. And then I just go right into 12, eight, six, like, and that's just consistent throughout the book, like across the board. And I just, for me, like anecdotally, I find much better results when I.

Paul (41:04.827)


Paul (41:21.563)

Mm -hmm.

Stoph (41:31.822)

go on that scale as well, 1286. Except for, you know, there's some movements that I go heavy volume or maybe just a couple reps instead of that. But for general means, the 1286 is really what I've seen that works. So I think that's, you know, cool to see that the science is now backing, you know, the anecdotal data.

Paul (41:54.587)

Yeah, I mean, it's for me, it's like, I do like 12, 10, eight. I try not to go below eight. I think that sometimes going below eight, you're going a little bit too intense with the, with the movements, but it's also like a lot of this too. This is what the science is showing. You do need to adjust it depending on what your body is responding to. Like, like Ronnie was running Coleman was very much like lower reps, you know, six, maybe a very high intensity, but then you got like,

Jay Cutler who was trading for like three hours every day from like midnight to like 3 a .m. And was just doing crazy high volume the whole fucking time. And then you also got Kai Green for him, supposedly this is what he says is that all of his trading was three sets of 20, right? Like it's, that's what it was always for him. It was always three sets of 20. And then Jay was the three sets of 10. That's what it was for Jay. Everything was three sets of 10. It was all straight sets. Everything was straight sets.

So it all depends on what you're doing and what your body gets the most results from. And I think that my body gets the best results from not super high volume, but like, I think like a lot of sets, but also this, like a couple of warmup sets and then a few working sets, eight, 10, 12, or 10, 12, 12, 10, eight, and getting pretty close to failure is what I noticed. And like my doubts yesterday were popping.

Stoph (43:07.726)

Thank you.

Paul (43:23.483)

from something like that. And also I did four side delt movements and one front and one rear delt movement because I need to work on my side delts. But if you think about it, your front delts are working pretty hard on chest days and your rear delts are working pretty hard on back days. So you're already hitting those. The only time you ever hit side delts is when you're hitting side delts. So I was like, let me approach it with this direction where...

Stoph (43:24.942)


Stoph (43:43.27)


Paul (43:50.107)

I hit what needs to be hit because it doesn't get hit often. And then I just touch up the stuff that gets hit pretty often. So that's what I took the approach with. And with the pump, my delts were looking solid compared to usual. So good to see you, Dale. Fucking yum. It's good to see.

Stoph (44:10.126)

So when people ask me about the bodybuilding versus regular weight training or even like compared to like powerlifting or anything like that I'm pretty sure it was you, Waite, years ago that gave me this saying but it was like bodybuilding is trying to move the least amount of weight for the most amount of reps and range of motion and I try and carry that mindset through

almost every piece. Three sets of 20s just across I think is crazy. But I think that generally speaking, I mean, well, actually we talk about we almost never PR and that's kind of like a big mindset. Like we are never going for that one set or one rep max. So shifting that mindset from a lot of people can be tough too.

Paul (44:49.083)


Paul (44:59.259)

Yeah, especially when you're younger, you know, strength is a big ego thing. But the quote was, it's, I think it's like, bodybuilders train, or how they train or whatever is, you want to move the least amount of weight as hard as possible. And then powerlifters train where they want to move the most amount of weight as easy as possible.

Stoph (45:20.014)


Paul (45:24.859)

That was the two different styles of training. I actually said that exact quote yesterday to Nick, because we're arguing about how I think that technically power lifters are training wrong, technically, because the human body is not meant for strength. We're not meant for strength. We're meant, we're actually meant to be runners, right? Like we're the longest runners in the animal kingdom, believe it or not. For those that are listening, believe it or not, it's true. We can run all day long. And that's if, you know, we're going back to like, you know, yeah, like we're going back to like,

Stoph (45:35.04)


Stoph (45:45.614)


Stoph (45:51.854)

Conditioned, yeah.

Paul (45:54.521)

living off the land and like, you know, barely having fire and shit like you're running all the time to catch your food, right? So we were runners, you know, when it was fight or flight, we fucking booked it, dude, we didn't fight. So we could run all day. So when you think about that and you think about like how people get injured and why powerlifters are injured all the time, technically you can make the argument that powerlifting is the wrong way to try.

Stoph (46:05.268)

Thank you.

Paul (46:21.243)

because you know, powerlifters get injured all the time. It's part of the gig, you know, it's part of what they do. They tear muscles, you know, they tear ligaments, they tear, you know, tendons, stuff like that, because they're lifting and pushing too hard to the point where their body just kind of gives out, that muscle just gives out. Bodybuilding's not the same, you know, very seldom, it's not often that a bodybuilder tears a muscle or a ligament or a tendon or something like that. Only when you're doing something you're not.

Stoph (46:47.246)


Paul (46:50.123)

Normally doing right like if you're if I were to go play football at like in the middle of prep I probably would get hurt probably because I'm really prone to energy or sorry an energy injury really prone to injury You know my body I'm very low calorie. You know I'm very like low in energy so like Getting hit would probably just do a lot of damage right so like that's what you get get injured So yeah, it's because of bodybuilding, but it's also like you're doing something body's not trained to do

But there is a video recently it was I think it was like elephants or something and it was like They look I don't know what it was. It was some sort of animal and they were running and they're like They're like, oh man. We've been running all day. I really hope he route ran them I hope they're gone now and then they like turn back and look at where they just were running from and you just see four humans with with Spears as like silhouettes up on this hill and They're like these guys never stop and that's literally how it was like that's literally

Stoph (47:43.07)


Paul (47:49.083)

how we were. We were the longest runners. We could outrun anything. So if anything, try to run from us. We might not be as fast, but we could eventually catch up. You know, we're more like hyenas than we are cheetahs. You know, we're here for the marathon. We're not, we're not sprinters, right? So, um, you gotta take, you can take that approach too, where like bodybuilding, you need to train to build muscles. So you're tearing the muscles and you're inflating your muscles. Um, so you take it with a, with a marathon approach. It should be very difficult to train like that.

Stoph (48:02.038)


Paul (48:19.109)

your body, you need to, you literally are telling your body, we need to adapt to this, to do this better and easier next time. So I need you, I'm going to tear this muscle and you're going to repair it so that it's easier next time. Where power lifting is like, we're going to train strength. So that way I can lift this weight with as little energy as needed and as little strength as needed.

Stoph (48:34.49)

Mm -hmm.

Paul (48:46.651)

for my body weight right now. So you're telling your body, I don't want you to gain any muscle. I don't want you to gain any fat. I want to stay exactly the way I am, but I want my muscle cells to be denser. I want them to be harder and denser so that I can exert more, less energy to lift this weight. That's how it is. So, you know, that's why like professional athletes hire bodybuilding coaches to train them. They don't hire powerlifting coaches. You powerlifting is just powerlifting. There's no other application for powerlifting. Bodybuilding is...

Stoph (48:55.114)


. .

Paul (49:16.091)

You can apply it to a lot of different things. The way we train is you can apply it to everything really. And it's just how it is. I'm not saying bodybuilding is better than powerlifting. I'm just saying this is what the body is more built for than the other. So that's also something to keep in mind.

Stoph (49:30.254)

Yeah. Yeah, and it's like the subjective conversation because we bring this argument to any power lifter and they're going to, you know, dispute it. Like it's all subjective. Like it's all based on our own opinion. And that's why these conversations can be so tough.

Paul (49:38.873)

Mm -hmm.

Paul (49:44.345)


Yeah, but it's like, look at how often power lifters are injured though. That's like, that's like my argument is like, they're injured all the fucking time. You know, there's like you like, look at, look at West Side Barbell. West Side Barbell is yes, it's the extreme side of power lifting and none of it's fucking healthy. But like, look at the guys talking about their injuries. You know, you can, you can look up interviews with guys from West Side Barbell and they'll talk about their injuries and they've torn like everything twice. Like it's crazy.

Stoph (49:50.722)


Paul (50:13.595)

And like that's not normal. You're you should not be tearing a muscle if you're tearing a muscle You did something very wrong. You really fucked up Um like that like that incline bench, uh tear with um, Larry wheels, you know the guy who is benching Yeah

Stoph (50:21.934)


Stoph (50:28.142)

I was gonna bring up Larry Reels because Larry Reels is the combination of bodybuilding and powerlifting and he either gets injured more times than everybody else or he injures other people like there's the Larry Reels curse and like that is like so scary

Paul (50:40.731)

Yeah. Yeah, I would never train with Larry wheels for that very reason, because he'd push my body in the way that nobody's not used to. And we'd be going for strength and shit. And I just fucking tear something. And that's what happens to a lot of guys who train with them. But he's a fucking alien too. Like he's not even of this planet. You know, like you can't like Larry wheels is such an outlier. You just like you can't even that's why he's so crazy. Like that's why it's crazy to see what he's lifting because it just.

Stoph (50:48.844)

Mm -mm.

Stoph (50:55.404)

We just... This... Yeah.

Paul (51:08.923)

It's crazy, he looks like a bodybuilder almost and like is as strong or stronger than 99 .9 % of competitive power lifters. It's wild.

Stoph (51:19.31)

Yeah. Oh, did you see the arm wrestling one with him? That was the worst one that I've ever injured that I've ever seen. He injured a dude arm wrestling. He snapped the dude's arm. Yeah. Yeah. You tear the ligament on the inner. Yeah.

Paul (51:28.633)

Oh no.

I've seen those injuries before. It's like your elbow, whatever. I think it's like right where it's the bone. Yeah, yeah, it's closer to your shoulder though. It's on the shoulder side that gets torn. That's why I'll never arm wrestle. I've always said I will never arm wrestle just strictly out of fear of that because you're down for the count for months if you do that.

Stoph (51:48.178)


Stoph (51:56.942)

It's closer to a year, but yeah.

Paul (52:00.411)

I mean, I mean, I don't, I just assumed at least like four to six months for recovery on something like that, because tendons don't just grow back. You have to get surgery and then you have to like do PT and stuff like that. Um, like my mom's ACL, she tore her knee. It took six months on crutches before she could like wear a brace. And then it was like, I think it looked another six months with the brace, you know, and then it was like slowly wearing the brace less and less. Um, and so like, that's why I'll never arm wrestle. I just, out of the just sheer fear of it.

Stoph (52:06.17)


Stoph (52:25.646)


Paul (52:30.169)

But the reason that guy tore his pack doing incline press is doing way too slow. He's going way too slow, way too heavy of a weight and his chest just gave out. He's pushing way too hard. So he's doing something that he normally doesn't do and something he shouldn't have been doing, you know, and that's why you get a muscle tear. That's why you shouldn't be going too slow. You should not go so slow that your muscle just give out and tear. You know, you shouldn't be doing a rep for more than...

Stoph (52:37.39)


Stoph (52:45.87)

I was

Paul (52:58.363)

Like I said earlier, like seven seconds is like where it starts to dip off, like the actual results. So anything more than that, it's kind of diminishing returns. And at the same time, you're also asking for an injury as well. So all these you got to keep in mind.

Stoph (53:15.342)

from like a mental standpoint to it like sure if you're trying to like PR bench and you're struggling and it takes more than that that's different but if you're doing any movement and you genuinely take longer than I mean for me I'd say five seconds seven seconds is what you're talking about but like if you're taking more than that amount of time like what even is your thought process like you get you I would be bored doing a rep that slow like

If I do 5, 6, 7 seconds, like, that's intentional, but doing anything more than, like, imagine doing a barbell curl and you bring it down for 15 seconds. Like, I would just be looking around, like, what are we doing here?

Paul (53:56.111)

Yeah, yeah, think about it for like 10 reps then you're talking like a two and a half minute set You'd be there forever

Stoph (54:00.846)

Yeah. Hey bro, are you done with this? Are you still hitting this? I'm still in a rep.

Paul (54:10.939)

Yeah, you just slowly going down. Hey man, look, what was that? What's the analogy? The turtle, the turtle, yeah, yeah, that analogy, what is it? Patience, I forget what the damn slogan is. Slow and steady wins the race, there it is.

Stoph (54:21.006)

to turtle in the hair.

Paul (54:32.687)

Slow and steady wins the race, man. Slow and steady wins the race. And you're doing like, you have to do like five pounds of pre -train machine just to actually like do it. Cause it's so long time under tension. You just like.

Stoph (54:32.782)


Stoph (54:43.094)

you're having like a full -on conversation while you're doing it. Yeah man, so I think I'm gonna go to Chipotle after this.

Paul (54:49.913)

Yeah, somebody's like, somebody's like, how many sets you got? You're like, I got two sets. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna wait. And you do one set. You're like, fuck this, I'm outta here, dude. I was going home.

Stoph (55:00.672)

makes eye contact the whole time.

Paul (55:04.715)

One one hundredth like one out of a hundred two out of a hundred. All right. I'm going home to see you. Have a good one Fuck that but you know, it's you

Stoph (55:07.412)

I'm gonna go.

Stoph (55:12.814)


Stoph (55:16.302)

I can imagine to like, take that in like a PF setting where there's no benches, but there's only three Smith machines and you're like, all right, this guy's been on there for like 10 minutes, he's bound to be finishing up. Oh, he's loading on more weight. This must be his last set.

Paul (55:32.635)

Yo -

Paul (55:37.147)

Too slow motion But yes, I don't know I you got to take it the grain of salt what other people say That seems odd, you know, if you're going too fast go too slow Be careful stuff like that. It's how you tear muscle Time it properly. You don't have to I mean I did the count if you so here's the other thing too is like you're like Oh, I don't count the seconds. Whatever you get

Stoph (55:41.91)


Paul (56:05.371)

you count the seconds long enough, you'll eventually not count the seconds anymore. You eventually just be, it'll just be muscle memory, you know, it'll just be, it'll just do it naturally. Same with like resting, right? Like I used to rest for a minute for so many sets. I can almost just naturally get back into it a minute after I stopped. It's just my, it's like a biological.

did it for so long. So it'll become part of your training is these habits you got to build. But also, to kind of move it back, take older information with a very large box of assault because at the time that's what they knew to be true from the decadal. But now the science shows the opposite. And over time, the science shows the opposite again. So

Stoph (56:28.364)


Paul (56:51.803)

Everything I'm saying is like what the science is showing now. This is our best guess as to like what the best results are going to be right? Like the best results is like, you know, 8 to 12 reps or whatever. 2 to 7 seconds per negative right and. I'm not really training quite to failure if you're advanced, you know, especially if you're on the competing side, you don't need to train to quite to failure. This is what the science showing now is our best guess right? This is what we can tell.

But you know, who's the same five years that there's a study that shows actually this is quite right. It's really more like this, right? It might be like nine to 13 sets and the pauses are best from like four to eight seconds and you know, all this, right? So it's like, this is our best guess right now. So at the time, even if Mike, let's say Mike Menzer was telling the truth, that was his best guess as to like his best results were because of this type of training.

Stoph (57:26.09)


Paul (57:46.523)

Could he have gotten better results with different training? I guarantee it. I guarantee it. But for him, his best guess was what he was saying. And the science of the time, this is their best guess is what was the best. Same with like, like anabolic, right? Anabolic has come a long way. So, so training now is very different to compensate for those anabolic. Back in Arnold's day, it was all a de -ball and test. So at the time they thought that de -ball and test were like the best of the best and that's all there's ever gonna be. But there's so many better things now.

to add on to test and to theoretically replace D -ball, you know, it doesn't work the same way. So you have to take all those things into account too. So like, there's a lot of things to like keep in mind when we're talking about, you know, this older data, this older information, this older science, and a lot of these older bodybuilders who train a certain way. And the science shows now that like Arnold's training, chest and back day, that's too much. You're actually getting diminishing returns because you're training too much muscle in one day. That's what the science has shown. But for him,

that was his best guess to what his best results were and it always worked for him because his thought process was, well, one is resting, the other one's working. He's like, so I'm hitting two muscles at the same time, I'm spending my time wisely. It's like, it's what gave him the best results. So take all this with a grain of salt is our best guess as of right now, doesn't mean the science won't change, but the science has shown that information that, for instance, Mike Mentzer was, you know,

Stoph (59:02.774)

What Paul's really trying to say is that the ideal and most optimized training is don't train at all, get yourself to the morbid obese side where using a scooter to get around town.

Paul (59:12.101)

promoting stuff like that is not necessarily true or accurate. So something to keep in mind.

Stoph (59:29.55)

and your rep ranges are going to be French ride to mount. That is going to be your rep range. So that's the, I mean, optimal training. So just keep that in mind as well.

Paul (59:29.881)

Mm -hmm.

Paul (59:35.291)

Get it, curls.

Paul (59:41.755)

Yep. Yep. Putting on your shoes should be should be your exercise for the day. Should be. That should be the hardest part of your day. Putting on your socks. Yeah. Putting on your socks until I throw your socks just to get them on. That should be. That should be your your exercise right there. You pull them up.

Stoph (59:46.798)


Stoph (59:52.046)

One shoe down, a half hour to go.

Stoph (01:00:00.046)

You got those those those claw things to help put them on.

Paul (01:00:07.853)

Yeah, yeah like the grip or things with the trigger on this yeah just to put on your socks imagine Your your organs are all over the place Your intestines over here your lungs over here But yeah, so there's one to the tech to you guys about this today back to some more information stuff now that like the Arnold's over Mike over the results real quick next week just because our UK is going on and that's also a big one, but I

Stoph (01:00:18.926)

That's funny.

Stoph (01:00:35.918)

It probably won't be much different though.

Paul (01:00:38.075)

Yeah, I think a lot of the same competitors are in the UK. And a lot of them, you know, like Corey Morris, I think might place better in the Arnold UK than he did in the US. So we'll see what the results are. But I think they're going to be very similar to last week. I already know West investors did win Classic physique. We already know that. And I think how he's going to get men's open. I'm very confident in that as well. So the rest of it's up in the air, but I think it's gonna be pretty close.

Stoph (01:00:59.008)


Stoph (01:01:07.178)

Yeah, all right guys

Paul (01:01:10.971)

But cool. All right. Thanks for listening. We'll see you guys later.

Stoph (01:01:16.526)


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